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168076 No. 168076
Thread 22 >>160720
Thread 23 >>163582
Thread 24 >>165724



In which a righteous asskicking ensues.

Art by Rapestove. (He writes in /eientei/. Yell at him till he updates.)



The red-hot lava has ignited the floorboards, a hazy pall of white woodsmoke beginning to fill the huge interior of the Voile library. From the carpet of flames emerges Remilia, her clothing smoldering and her face smeared with soot. She glares at you, seeming to see you for the first time. Her eyes narrow and flare with hate as a feral snarl tears from her throat.

For once, she wastes no time on arrogant bravado or sneering insults.

There’s only the attack.

The vampire literally blurs as she rushes you, the tip of her fiery spear laying open your flank, piercing your rocky hide effortlessly. You lunge forward, your jaws closing in on the bitch.

She vanishes.

“UP~!” Keine cries, and you look up in time to see Remilia re-appear above you. She vanishes just as Meiling’s limp body goes pinwheeling through the air where she was. You bellow terribly as her spear slashes your rear leg, the wound burning terribly. The vampire’s mocking laughter lingers in the air as she alights on a burning table a short distance away, ignoring her burning clothes.

“She’s too fast!” Keine cries.

Remilia blurs towards you, a hideous screech piercing the air as she arcs through the air, her blazing spear slashing down. It explodes in embers and sparks as it meets Kusanagi in midair, your schoolteacher a mere blur of blue contrast against the smoke and flames rapidly engulfing the library. You use the time she’s bought you, reaching for your magic. Claws can’t form somatic components, but Dragons are naturals; magic burns in their blood. “Punchet, you whisper in the dragon’s native limbs feeling light and springy as Haste takes effect.

You hear a shout of alarm and espy Keine swinging fruitlessly at empty air just as Remilia blurs over your shoulder with incredible speed – just in time to meet your tail, already swinging through the air. The vampire is swatted like a fly, smashing into a towering bookcase hard enough to send it careening to the burning floor. Keine dashes airborne, keeping clear of the burning floor and sizzling lava. She hovers over the fallen bookcase, Kusanagi over her head in a double-handed high guard.

The bookcase explodes in a cloud of shredded paper and wooden shrapnel Remilia blasts through, wreathed in scarlet energy. Kusanagi deflects uselessly as the vampire hits Keine’s stomach with her shoulder, screeching hideously. You’re still processing the afterimages when you hear the hakutaku impact the ceiling.

You cast your last powerful spell, your ace-in-the-hole, the last syllable leaving your lips just as Remilia dives upon you. You’ve barely begun to move before a shockwave of ruby light sends you reeling, staggered.

The vampire is upon you instantly, winding up with her huge spear. She hurls her it into you, ruby light blossoming around the broad spearhead as it strikes.

The world vanishes in a brilliant scarlet explosion. Somewhere very distant you hear something big crashing to earth. Then somewhere very, very close you hear wicked laughter. You stagger upright just in time to see Remilia hurtling at you from above, her spear gripped in both hands. Her feet slam into your shoulders. Somewhere, Keine screams in fury and fear, but Remilia plunges her broad-tipped spear into the gap between your shoulder-blades without hesitation, aiming for your heart.

Tink!

A simple, beautiful sound, tolling clear as a bell.

“... what the dev-” Remilia manages before Keine plants a single well-aimed ruby bolt square on her chin, flipping her off your back neatly. You heave your bulk into the air, the floor creaking precariously under your newly redoubled weight. Remilia has already regained her feet, and is staring at you incredulously.

“Gugnir has rent dragon-hide before!” Remilia snarls, confused.

You flex one gigantic forelimb, now made of solid, living iron. “Yeah,” you reply in your booming dragon-voice. “About that.”

The vampire smirks disdainfully, twisting at the hip as she swings her spear violently. Scarlet magic darts spray from the weapon with incredible speed, raking the length of your stony flank.

Or would have, if you had one.

You shriek with mocking laughter, the tiny, piercing voice of your new body – a fiendish fairy no larger then a bumblebee – adding a nice edge to the insult. You do a single loop in midair and zip away from Remilia on gossamer wings.

The vampire howls with rage and you sense another attack incoming. You barrel roll hard, corkscrewing through the air with agility few things can match – and the glowing, bat-shaped magical missiles behind you are no exception, detonating harmlessly in your wake. You hear Remilia charge after you, bellowing in rage, only to halt suddenly.

The Voile Library is burning in earnest now. Thick, arcid woodsmoke billows from a floor literally made of fire; every inch not covered by thousand-degree lava is burning instead. Towering bookshelves have become mighty pillars of fire, explosive flashes and pops coming from them as the powerful magic in the oldest tomes wards off the flames. Occasionally a weaker tome succumbs with powerful blasts, blowing clouds of flaming paper and debris into the air. The air itself burns with oppressive heat, enough that even your new fiend-form is having trouble. You shift into something more comfortable.

Through the smoke-haze comes a stalking silhouette, just visible by the light of her burning clothes and the angry fireglow of the floor.

“Kill me?” it asks, lunging forward one way, then darting back, leading with its nose, as if it could smell you. “Kill me? You know how many have tried?” It raises the long, horrible shaft of its weapon, the bloody glow of Gugnir’s battle aura revealing her face in slashing shadows and scarlet-stained skin.

“It always ends the same way,” says the Scarlet Devil, a confidence centuries old dripping from her voice. “The prey runs.

And the wizard Shapechanged into a Hasted magma drake made of iron attacks. You hit Remilia like a crossbow quarrel, ripping at her with your claws as you blow by at high speed. A horrific, inhuman shriek of rage is lost in the cacophony of impressive detonations that do little more then churn the smoke. You take inspiration, shifting into a smoke drake, your charcoal scales vanishing into the haze.

“I CAN SMELL YOU!” Remilia shrieks as she hurls danmaku into the hellscape with mad abandon, pieces of flaming debris and magma spray flying through the air. “I CAN HEAR THE BEATING OF YOUR HIDEOUS HEART!”

You glide in silently, dragonic blindsense guiding you straight to your target. You don’t even hear her complaint over the deafening concussions of her counterattack. You don’t know if it’s beautiful, or if it has a meaningful name, but the danmaku she’s hurling at you is certainly loud; concussion waves battering you as you flee into the smoke. Sprays of magma and burning wood splinters and everything else pelt you, bouncing off your solid iron body harmlessly. Using your blindsense, you locate Remilia and barrel in once more, fangs out and claws ready.

She turns into a bat.

You miss as she twirls acrobatically in air, then puts on unnatural speed in her pursuit. Through the ever-thicker smoke and superheated air, under the smashed remnants of tables and under toppled heaps of burning bookcases you flee, Remilia’s bat-form hot on your tail. Finding a good position, you whirl and Shapechange into a fiendish displacer beast pack lord an instant before lashing out at her with your tentacles. She weaves past them with disdainful skill and shifts almost too fast to see, a veritable cloud of red magical chains whipping through the air to engulf you. They whiff through empty air harmlessly, your displacement effect saving you. As you bound away, Remilia’s hands slash out, demonic claws raking you, but they simply skip off your iron hide. A sound no human throat could make rends the air as you dive back into the smoke, Remilia shifting into a bat to continue pursuit.

You continue to weave and dodge through the flaming ruins and blinding smoke of the Voile Library, both of you shifting and counter-shifting, striking and retreating, a deadly game of literal shadow-boxing. Remilia’s lethal speed avails her nothing against your body of living iron. Her magic could bypass it easily – if only she could connect. But her raw power is terrifying; despite superheated air, choking smoke and red-hot lava, her assaults have scarcely slackened.

As Remilia’s latest round of danmaku shakes the library to its very foundations, you know you’ve only minutes before the Scarlet Devil tears the very Library down on your head. You Shapechange into a pyroclastic dragon once more and issue challenge; belting out a savage roar.

Remilia materializes before you instantly. Her face splits into a ravenous grin, a screech of triumph ripping from her throat as she draws back one palm. Her eyes glow with utter madness, the bloodlust you whipped to a fever pitch with every swift sting and slippery evasion about to be consummated. She pours every ounce of her monstrous power into a blindingly bright nimbus of scarlet energy in her palm – and slams it into your chest with a final triumphant scream.

And Spell Turning flings it right back into her face.

Remilia’s limp form is flung through the air like so much trash. She smashes into the floor, skidding face-first through 1,000 degree lava before coming to a halt.

“ROCK, PAPER, MAGIC, MOTHERSUCKER!” you bellow with unholy glee before unleashing your breath weapon. Remilia is hammered to the floor, the blast of superheated ash and sound scouring her with lava and flaming shrapnel blown off the floor. You gallop forward, Haste accelerating your massively heavy metal body to unnatural speed, the entire building quaking under your rapid footfalls.

Hasted speed kept you aloft as an iron drake, flying more like a crossbow quarrel then a bird, and it keeps pyroclastic dragons forty-ton bulk airborne as well. But you’re now made of solid iron, and you weight four hundred tons.
Which suits you just fine. You haven’t had much luck with flight recently, but by god have you had practice at falling.

Just as Remilia drags herself upright you leap into the air with all your strength – and come crashing down upon the Scarlet Devil. The floor of the Voile Library finally gives way under the tremendous impact. Sternum-shaking cracks! sound as the massive floor supports snap, the floor collapsing into a shallow crawlspace.

You lurch to your feet, then slam your mighty bulk down again, bellowing. The support pillars quaver and crack as you hammer Remilia into bedrock with hasted speed. Lava begins flowing down into the shallow crater, streaked by gray where an iron lamp fixture or shelf-brace met its molten end, pooling around you as you continue to attack.

At last, you have become an iron dragon swimming in lava at c, (where c = the speed of carnage generation in a total vacuum of fucks given.) The gambits have been played the spells cast – all that remains now is killing.

The prey runs.

Remilia’s words collide with the memory of the mind flayer, its thoughts flowing unprotected at the moment of realization.

prey runs

You fling your iron bulk at Remilia, every inch, body and soul, rearing up and smashing down as fast as possible, claws smashing through the floor and sinking into bedrock for better purchase. You lose all sense of time as you attack, beating your rage against the bedrock to see which will break first.

A bolt of pain spears your back, but you continue on. Remilia is your target, and before all else, Remilia dies.

A fusillade of danmaku rains on you, one well-aimed ogive missile flinging your chin upwards. Wafting through the smoke, whisping through the flames, come ghosts.

Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of ghosts, their hands reaching towards you eagerly, their eyes dull and thoughtless. Behind them, more and more, an orderly advance. Remilia’s ghost legions, freshly reinforced and much more powerful, are flooding the room.

[ ] Stand your ground.
[ ] Finish Remilia.
[ ] Write-in?

>> No. 168079
File 136823429576.jpg - (748.54KB , 1200x1200 , finshield1.jpg ) [iqdb]
168079
You should go vote for Rapestove's shield submission for Dark Souls II, because it's pretty. And also shiny. Vote here: http://tinyurl.com/czhk4pf

Pic related, le shield.

Just look at that thing.

Goddamn.
>> No. 168080
>>168079
>Rapestove.

...who?
>> No. 168081
>>168080
The guy who does "Roll the Dice".
>> No. 168083
[x] Finish Remilia.
The ghost of the dead enslaved, they raise to protect their master. Way to add insult to injury.
>> No. 168085
[x] Finish Remilia.

You don't want to have to go through all this again.
>> No. 168087
[x] Stand your ground.

Even if she isn't killed now this is the kind of bullshit that should gets Reimu/Yukari riding your ass like a sex-starved prison inmate.
>> No. 168088
[X] Stand your ground.

Ignoring a ghost army is overconfidence. Wizards die when they get overconfident.
>> No. 168090
[x] Finish Remilia.

Cut off the head and the snake dies.
>> No. 168091
[ ] Stand your ground.

I don't play D&D, but blindly charging in, fueled with rage does not sound like a very WizAnon thing to do.
>> No. 168092
[x] Stand your ground.

We should see what happens next before deciding anything. That and there's the risk fully finishing Remilia might cause said ghost army to run amok.
>> No. 168094
[ ] Finish Remilia.

FINISH HER
>> No. 168095
>>168076
[x] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168096
[x] Stand your ground.
We can kick her ass any day, but we can only kill her once. There is too much at risk, especially because we don't have all the facts. Be wary of purporting to be an omnipotent king or queen, for you are still a piece played on a board.
>> No. 168098
[X] Finish her.
-[X] Have Kiene hold off the ghosts while you do so.
>> No. 168100
[x] Finish Remilia.

End this Abomination, Now. Even should it cost us All, we can make sure she will Never kill another innocent, nor enslave there souls to her will.

BURN ABOMINATION! BURN!
>> No. 168103
[x] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168108
[x] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168109
[x] Finish Remilia

The ghosts are a desperate distraction. She intended to use them for something else, this is her throwing anything and everything she has left at us. We've finally got her at her end. If we give her time to breathe, who knows what she'll pull?

We have to kill her NOW.
>> No. 168111
>>168109
That's assuming too much as she did no visible signs of anything when she got flattened.

There are times where it's better to keep your blood-lust in check.
>> No. 168112
>>168109
Yeah. Plus, throwing a horde of slowly-moving goons against someone like Kiene who hasn't used her Spell Cards yet is pretty much begging for them to be annihilated in a spray of danmaku.
>> No. 168117
[x] Finish Remilia
eyes on the target
>> No. 168122
>>168112
hence my concerns about what this is all about, but everyone's too blinded by the prospect of non-human blood.
>> No. 168123
[X] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168126
File 136825924226.jpg - (364.57KB , 1000x721 , death-battle.jpg ) [iqdb]
168126
[X] Stand your ground.

Ha I knew I had pic related out there.
>> No. 168127
[x] Finish Remilia.

Oh man, this update, this sweet sweet battle. Well done, Deme, well done. I laughed of excitement many times while reading this.
>> No. 168129
[x] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168130
Can we shapeshift into something that can control undead and send them at Remilia?
>> No. 168132
[x] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168140
[X] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168147
[X] Finish Remilia.

The way I see it if we take the time to finish of the ghosts while their master is still around their master is just going to keep summoning more ghosts. While this may get us backup from the undead side, due to the reapers and all that, it seems like waiting is not a good idea in this fight
>> No. 168148
File 136828943065.png - (873.59KB , 400x1505 , 1343174080558.png ) [iqdb]
168148
Also, you all might be interested in reading this: >>/blue/17325

>inb4 I fucked up the cross-board link
>> No. 168153
[x] Finish Remilia.


let's do this! LEEEEEEEEEEEEEROYY JEENKINS
>> No. 168162
>>168148
it works but I'm not sure how many people'll read it as it might make them question their beliefs and "That's terrible"

here's hoping whatever wins won't permamently ruin the story or kill Youmu

>>168147
That's assuming a bit much at this point as the thrashing she got might have affected things. And do you really want to risk the ghost army running amok attacking any and EVERYthing?
>> No. 168176
File 136830958716.jpg - (55.07KB , 500x441 , Fatality.jpg ) [iqdb]
168176
[x]Finish Remilia
>> No. 168179
[x] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168182
[x]Finish Remilia
>> No. 168184
Daaaaaaamn yo, ain't gunna be no tea and cakes after this shit.
>> No. 168185
So uh yeah. Has anyone been active in the /blue/ thread? This one, >>/blue/16153, though >>/blue/16982 is where things start.

Gist of it is, there's been discussion over AwiY and Remilia in general. Mostly along the lines of, "WizAnon is being used."
No doubt that Remilia is a vamp who is killing humans for noms, feeding on hikkis and suicides and by any human morals, it is deplorable. Except we are forgetting that WizAnon is a foreigner in a Youkai Preserve. The system was set up to let youkai live and feed on the dregs of society, the ones we already rejected. Blah Blah Blah I'm sure you've heard about it, blue and orange morality.

Here in lies the problem. WizAnon was directed to Remilia by Yuyuko, who is major player in Gensokyo and has an interest in keeping things status quo. I'm betting she was expecting us to solve this with danmaku and the like; ritual spell duels to decide the victor, as is expected in world filled with magical lolis.

Killing Remilia accomplishes what? Stopping a vampire from her "rebellion"? Sure. So does defeating her and letting her live. It also creates a massive power vacum and upsets the power balance in Gensokyo, and breaks the status quo, the very thing the powerful players in charge, the ones who are already using us as a tool, want to maintain. We kill Remilia, we become the incident starters. Incident starters who aren't playing by spell card rules. We're asking for the likes of Yuyuko, Yukari, Marisa, and Reimu to come after us. Not to mention the vampire's little sister who will be very much in the mood for revenge.
Yes, we can toss around 9th level spells. But we have limited slots and need to prepare and plan. They don't. We're the god damn Batman here, but we aren't fucking retards who'll kill a vampire in the heat of the moment. Think about the consequences of actually causing deaths in Gensokyo. It carries weight here, more so than DnD planes were human v monster duels to the deaths are expected. You've seen the difference, the kind of plane with WizAnon's encounter with the mindcracker is very different than Gensokyo and follows different expectations.

TL;DR calm your bloodlust, and think things through. Aren't you supposed to be wizards? Calm and collected, think things through (unless drunk and riding a chest) types?

[ ]Stand your ground
Don't kill Remilia, but defeat her nevertheless.
>> No. 168186
>>168185

Personally, I disagree. I think wizanon was sent there to die.
>> No. 168187
[x] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168188
>>168185
Thank you, someone with reason appears. I consider the matter of Seiga mentioning necromancy to Remilia to be a suspicious thing just due to her general nature. For all we know Remilia's stunt might just be a smoke screen for her actions. Though in this line this would mean she might not have been expecting Wizanon to go running amok, though if he does go fully through with it, well no one will be paying attention to what she's doing in awake of what'd happen.

But he is being used by someone alright, even if it's not Yuyuko or Seiga and right now he's far too happy to go with his natural impulse (same with certain voters), mindless of the long term results of it.

I'd understand it if Remilia made a definitive offensive move, but she hasn't (The Gazebo doesn't fit her MO nor Necromancy magic), just Wizanon flying off the handle.
>> No. 168189
>>168148
>Wiznon's choices and moral judgement will be questioned; by very old and intelligent beings, and those questions won't be easy to answer.

And I'll be ready to answer them.

But for now, it's asskicking time. Not talky-talky time.

>>168186
Heh, they're underestimating the Wizard's power then.
>> No. 168195
>>168185
>calm your bloodlust, and think things through

Yeah, I've done it, and I still opt to finish Remilia first.

Don't want her to go backstabbing us while we're handling the ghosts, aren't we?

I doubt she'll just run away quietly even though she has already been gravely wounded. She's too prideful for that.
>> No. 168210
>>168189
even if it gets him gapped into a unpleasant place?

>>168195
I don't think she can even move at this point otherwise she'd have joined the ghosts in an attack.
>> No. 168211
[x] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168212
>>168210
Or the ghost lady whos "ability is manipulation of death
Or the pissed off loli vampire who'd happily make WizAnon go "Kyuu" with the vague and undefined (For a reason) ability of "Destruction of anything and everything"?
Or the shrine maiden. Reimu is absolute gamebreaker. What are we going to do if she comes after us? Kill her too?
WizAnon hasn't gone up against Gensokyo's heavy weights. Remilia is strong, but she's not the biggest threat. Finishing her off to simply kill her is worse for WizAnon in the long run. Be practical.
>> No. 168215
>>168212
Tell that to those who seem absolutely hell bent on adding a vampire head to their trophy wall, consequences be damned.
>> No. 168223
>>168185

Thing is, I don't know that EITHER option given equates to "don't kill Remilia", just rather different tactics to achieve the same ultimate end. Heck, I don't even know how we could (without doing an incomprehensible 180 on our characterization) contrive a reason NOT to ultimately kill Remilia without some drastic new development to derail things.

I mean, good grief, have you been LISTENING to Wizanon's internal monologue for these past few updates? Now that we know that there's flat-out murder going on, not even just the corpse snatching that had us seeing red before, exactly what kind of epiphany do we thing Wizanon is going to have in the middle of a heated battle that'll make him suddenly think "Aw, well shucks. I guess you killing folks isn't THAT bad. Sure, go ahead, keep doing it. Gosh, I really don't even know what I was so worked up about to begin with!"

Just beating Remilia down might stop her ghostly rebellion, but finishing her off is, at this point, the only feasible way I can see to stop her killing spree, and I just don't see Wizanon agreeing to let her go on doing that. Even if it DOES put him in horrible hot water with a bunch of very powerful people, doing otherwise doesn't fit with anything we've seen of him so far.

He's just not "the guy that abandons the unimportant ordinary folks to their fate to curry favor and hobnob with the ones inflicting it". That's the complete opposite of his fundamental nature, and it's not a characterization 180 that I can see happening during the middle of a pitched battle (nor a characterization shift that I'd particularly want to see at all, for that matter).
>> No. 168224
[X] Stand your ground.
-[X] Have Keine keep an eye on Remilia.

>>168212
The main reason why some are going along with the 'Kill all Youkai' route is because they feel that wizardanon can handle anything they throw at him in a fair battle. Even though they know it's going to not be easy, they feel that wizardanon isn't going to go down like a wet paper towel if Reimu and the others go after him.

After him.

Him. Bear with me for a moment.

What most of the people in this pro-Youkai/pro-human debate are assuming is that if we go up against Reimu and the others, it'll be just a 'fair' battle with both sides using the best of their abilities to kill the opposition. For the pro-human faction, they feel that wizardanon is capable of handling whatever Reimu and the others throw at him. And even I, a pro-youkai reader, agree to some extent.

But wizardanon isn't the only person who'll be on the wrong side of the local justice system.

It's common knowledge to anybody in Gensokyo who hasn't been living under a rock over the past few months that Wizardanon's very close to a certain were-hakutaku. Said were-hakutaku is far from as powerful as wizardanon, and if the circumstances required it, something 'unfortunate' could happen to her for the sake of the common good. If anybody wants to bring us down, all they need to do is murder Keine while she's away from us. Pissing off the indigenous inhabitants of Gensokyo isn't exactly the smartest thing to do when they know that all they need to do is force us to choose between our ideals of a human friendly Gensokyo or Keine. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't try to play this card if we end up butting up against Gensokyo's powerhouses. They may not kill her due to her role as the guardian of the Human Village, but they could go after her if they determine that this is for the common good.

In the end, I believe that wizardanon's goals should still be the ones that he had before he got into this entire mess- find a way back into his dimension. Unless his revelation with Yuyuko suddenly changed this into 'All Youkai who kill humans must die no matter what the cost', I think that killing Remilia and getting ready to take on the rest of Gensokyo is not exactly in our best interests.

tl;dr conclusion: Taking on the rest of Gensokyo might mean fighting multiple overpowered locals simultaneously, which we probably won't win. Additionally, although we might be able to make some gains if such an outcome occurs, Keine might suffer the consequences of our rampage. Unless we want to lose her, I don't think that we should continue on in this direction.
>> No. 168225
>>168223
there's the fact his rage is being used by someone to futher their own goals and the fact there's such a choice and the fact only now the ghosts come out presents a curious scenario.

And we don't know how bad things are as we cannot tell how much Yuyuko said was true or not, hell before Yuyuko opened her mouth, the goal was to investigate the ghost incident, not go full retard charging into a political situation he knows little of. There's a chance that someone might on their way to clear things up.

There's a very high chance that the massive fallout finishing Remilia off will affect Keine in a negative fashion for aiding a menace to Gensokyo.

That's assuming you care about anything besides killing the nearest non-human.
>> No. 168226
keine not as strong as wiznon?

what have you been smoking. keine can go toe to toe with most of the touhous especially in ex form which she is close to changing to.
>> No. 168227
[x] Finish Remilia.

It may be strange, but I see Remilia as being in a CYOA of her own, here. (You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?)

>>168215
>consequences be damned
Wizanon has, throughout most of his adventuring career, been quite capable of successfully damning the consequences. It's entirely out of character (not to mention dramatically unreasonable) for him to start doing so now, in the middle of a fight.

Which is not to suggest that he'll still be able to avoid negative consequences this time.
>> No. 168229
>>168225

No, we DO know basicaly how bad things are. That's the thing. Yuyuko's word is the LEAST of our evidence at this point. We've got confirmation of exactly what's going on, straight from the mouth of Remilia's very own guilt-stricken maid, and it's something that, apparently, most of the players EXCEPT Keine knew full well was going on.

Now both we AND Keine have to decide whether to either A) just turn a blind eye to these murders so long as we can continue to live comfortably ourselves, or B) try to prevent more victims.

Choice B may, indeed, result in bad things happening to one or both of us. I'm by no means denying that! Good grief, do you really think that trying to protect the weak from those that would prey on them is supposed to be a SAFE course of action?

Wizanon has obviously made his choice, and Keine has just as obviously made hers now that she knows the full truth and is actively helping us in our efforts to kill Remilia.

Now we get to see what they (and we) can make of it from here on out.
>> No. 168230
It just sounds like self-justifying logic to me.

What's next killing everyone in Gensokyo as that will likely occur in the aftermath of this, either be it chaos from lesser youkai or the big names trying to remove the major menace (Wizanon)

>>168227
You're not reading the odd signs instead going "I'll do it anyways", that and there's signs that he might be trying to grow past that baring his leeroy jenkins mode he's in at the moment.

And protecting the weak? I'm certain more weak people will die in the fallout of this than not.
>> No. 168231
>>168230

Eh, I honestly don't see the powers that be taking down Wizanon after the fact.

Think of it like this: With this event, Remi proved she was a mad dog who can't be tamed with danmaku. Given this, she would have had to be removed in a permanent fashion either way. What Wizanon did was just do it for them before Remi got a chance to cause even more problems. Indeed, that might well be why Yuyu sent him there to begin with. It's a win/win from her perspective. Either Wizanon kills Remi and removes that threat (also proving he's easily led around by the nose), or Remi kills Wizanon but is weakened, making her easier to take down.

Now, Reimu might go after Wizanon for this, but I can't imagine she'll be particularly bloodthirsty after Wizanon explains what Remi was doing and planning. If anything, she might thank him for saving her the trouble.

So with that in mind, my vote is:

[X]Finish her.
Depending on where Keine is, asking her to cover us with the zombai goast army would be good too, but I'm not sure she's in a position to do that.
>> No. 168232
>>168224
>In the end, I believe that wizardanon's goals should still be the ones that he had before he got into this entire mess

Then you're wasting the potential of this story that Deme said at >>168148.

>>168230
>What's next killing everyone in Gensokyo as that will likely occur in the aftermath of this, either be it chaos from lesser youkai or the big names trying to remove the major menace (Wizanon)

Why so paranoid? Why do you always think of the worst possible outcome for this? Deme's not Kira. He's not going to go all SNOW END on us.

>there's signs that he might be trying to grow past that baring his leeroy jenkins mode he's in at the moment.

Yeah, sure.

Besides, it's too late for that. Not when we already destroyed half of the SDM like this.

>I'm certain more weak people will die in the fallout of this than not.

By whom? The youkai? Then they're the ones to blame, not the Wizard.

If they just rampage like that like mindless beasts, then perhaps we should treat them as mindless beasts. Beasts that need to be put down.
>> No. 168233
>>168232
your bias is showing. That and you don't know Demetrious' tendency to troll.
>> No. 168234
>>168233
I don't think he'll troll us by killing everyone in Gensokyo.

Besides, when was the last time he trolled?
>> No. 168235
>>168234
In this story or Strike Witches Quest? As the latter served as a troll outlet, which he hasn't run for a while. Thus a troll is overdue.

That and when a balance of power is destabilized nothing good comes of it, the same goes for an eco system, you wipe out one part and everything else falls apart.
>> No. 168236
>>168235
So, youkai eating humans is part of the ecosystem?
>> No. 168239
>>168236

You are opposed to the idea because you ARE a human. The same as sentiment rabbits would be opposed to be eaten by foxes.

In gensokyo, youkai are the majority, and yes, they eat humans. Not to survive, of course, but as the dominant predator, they have that option. The same as humans, the dominant predators on earth, can choose to kill other beings for sustenance. Even though it's not strictly necessary.

So yes, whether you like it or not, Youkai eating humans IS part of the ecosystem.
>> No. 168241
>>168239
So?
>> No. 168242
>>168239
Does being "part of the ecosystem" make it morally justified?
Are prey not allowed to defend themselves against predators?
>> No. 168244
Are other youkai even eat people? From previous updates I was under impression that only Remilia and her sister do this and other youkai feeds off faith gathered with incidents.


Also is Remilia one summoning ghosts? I mean I think taking control of so many undeads would be hard with few hundred tons ramming you into the ground.
>> No. 168245
>>168244
>Are other youkai even eat people? From previous updates I was under impression that only Remilia and her sister do this and other youkai feeds off faith gathered with incidents.

Exactly my point. All those pro-youkai guys are talking as if most, if not all, youkai are man-eaters. And then, they easily excuse that act, saying it's "necessary for Gensokyo's existence" or other crap like that.
>> No. 168246
>>168242

Once again, you are only speaking from the human perspective. "morally justified" isn't a term that applies to any other predator/prey relationship in nature, so singling out this one among all others would be hypocritical.

Also, the concept of "Morality" is understood by you and every other human as the produce of all our past experiences/successes/failures as a race. One cannot assume our concepts will be applicable to different races of similar intellect.

Yes prey are allowed to defend themselves. May the best human/youkai win IMO.
>> No. 168247
>>168246
>Yes prey are allowed to defend themselves. May the best human/youkai win IMO.

I agree. Then there's no need for the Wizard to hold back.
>> No. 168248
>>168245
Yeah, this is a common statement that gets blurted out by people and it really makes no sense. All youkai eat humans? Youkai are supernatural beings, not man-eating monsters. Sure, some eat people, but many are seen as benevolent as well.

Think of a touhou and imagine them eating bloody lumps of flesh; for most of them it's just going to look plain silly.
>> No. 168249
>>168247

Indeed. Let's all kill each other and let St. Peter sort it out.
>> No. 168250
>>168244
Dunno really, some are assuming so but I have my doubts as Remilia doesn't look to be in any shape to command them, hence my suspicions about how effective finishing her off would be in regards to the ghosts.

>>168245
Anti-Youkai go about saying how they all must die beacause they're all man-eaters first.
>> No. 168251
>>168250
>Anti-Youkai go about saying how they all must die beacause they're all man-eaters first.

By "they", you mean all the youkai or just the man-eating ones?

I'm pretty sure that the one who starts accusing all youkai being man-eaters are from the pro-youkai group. Ironic, eh?
>> No. 168252
>>168246
Of course we can apply morality to other intelligent beings. The universe has no morality, so intelligent beings must be moral in its place, because there is no-one else who will. Nature has no morality, no ethics, and no rules. But humans do, and there is no-one else who will enforce that morality, those ethics, and those rules. Nature operates on the law of Might Makes Right, and as the dominant species on Earth we have all the might, so we should at least attempt do the actual morally right thing, whatever that happens to be. Humanity is the supreme dictator of Earth and it is impossible for us to step down without going extinct, so as a species capable of morality, we should be a benevolent dictator.

The same principle applies here. These youkai have let Remilia exist doing whatever she wishes, according to the lawlessness of nature. We are apparently the only ones who are willing and able to enforce a very simple ethical rule: don't murder sapient beings. Remilia has made it very clear that the only way for us to enforce this rule is to kill her, so we will kill her.
>> No. 168253
>>168246
What other perspective should we use? Wizanon, in case you haven't been reading at all in the past 25 threads is /human/ making the human moral perspective the only relevant one.
>> No. 168254
>We are apparently the only ones who are willing and able to enforce a very simple ethical rule: don't murder sapient beings. Remilia has made it very clear that the only way for us to enforce this rule is to kill her, so we will kill her.

I think that beating shit out of her and then forcing her to live of ring of sustenance, decanter of endless blood(yes I made it up) or something like this would work. Locals in the past weren't too happy with Remilia rampages so they beaten living shit out of her and forced to live of people that wanted to kill themselves from outside.
>> No. 168255
>>168254
>forcing her to live off a ring of sustenance or a magical source of blood
And how do you suppose we were going to enforce this? Ride herd on her all day and night?
>> No. 168257
>>168255
Locals didn't have beat her every day to enforce their rules. Also suicidal folks don't grow on trees, she cannot get them herself and if we will be able to provide alternative then they won't be given to her anymore.
>> No. 168258
>>168257
in case you missed it, her current plan was all about overturning the balance of power that forced her into the previous deal of only eating humans from outside Gensokyo.

In other words, she's only willing to adhere to such deals so long as it's enforceable, and would immediately attempt to squirm her way out of it, just like she's doing with the deal she's already struck.

So, either Wizanon strikes a deal with a murderous human eating monster which will be loosely enforced at best, or he kills her and knows for sure that nobody will be eaten by her again.
>> No. 168259
[X] Stand your ground.
Destabilising the balance of power is a very bad thing. Especially when the other people holding the power can beat you down at the drop of a hat. We've got someone with the power to destroy anything, another with control over any boundary, and of course, Reimu with invulnerability hax and more. Of course if people think we can take it, then well it's their own opinion. Not really seeing a bloodless conclusion to this affair though.
>> No. 168260
>>168258
If we don't kill her we can always tell others what she did with all important details like "little red-white cunt" so she gets additional beating when locals will be happily reminding Remilia of her position in gensyokyo.

Also it worked for like 10 years and now when she tried to break it local powers sent us to show her place again. And I don't see anything wrong in beating shit out of her every few years if we have to.
>> No. 168262
[X] FINISH HER

Un-nice monsters must be destroyed. Sorry, but suck it, moralfags.
>> No. 168263
>>168260
Or we could just kill her and not need to remain on this one demi-plane for the rest of our life, riding herd on a vampire.

If I believed she could actually be redeemed I'd have a little support for your suggested course of action, however her personality indicates that if we leave her alive all it means is that we'll need to fight her again, because she won't give up.

Wizanon can do more good by moving on to fight other evils than he could watching over a single vampire in a tiny demi-plane who is irredeemably evil.

And that doesn't even to begin to include the fury at the very antithesis of what he's been fighting for his entire life that Remillia represents.
>> No. 168264
>>168263
Do you really think given choice anon will let wizardnon leave gesokyo?
>> No. 168265
>>168264
I fail to see what this meta knowledge has to do with Wizanons professed goals. All along he's been working on a way to leave, alongside investigating the strange occurrence that has seems to have wrapped itself around him.

In other words, as of right now, Wizanon is not planning on staying, is furious with Remillia's very existence, has shown himself to be uncaring of the potential wrath of greater powers and is currently enjoying the opportunity to flex all his muscles magical and physical at once.


I don't really see either option as "letting Remillia live" more as one option leaps forward to the killing and the other approaches it more cautiously.

It would in fact be severely out of character for Wizanon to let her live.
>> No. 168267
>>168264

It's not going to be a choice kinda thing...Remi is the mastermind, the last boss...once we kill her the story is over and we ride off into the sunset to hunt bigger and better evils.
>> No. 168268
>>168267
>Remi is the mastermind, the last boss

Except all the evidence suggests otherwise.
>> No. 168269
>>168268
I concur. But she still needs to be disposed of nonetheless.
>> No. 168270
As mentioned before, the big Problem here is that even if we let Remilia live, there is no way for us to make sure she stops eating People and even if we can enforce that she will try to get out of the deal at the first opportunity.

If we try to go the high Moral ground, we will risk the lifes of countless People. Who are we to decide that These lives are worthless? We do not have the right to decide who is supposed to die. Yokai also don't have that right. Even if they are predators, morality isn't limited to humans. It is a concept that is nearly as old as humanity. It began with the whole An Eye for an Eye and the concept of "don't do to another what you don't wnat yourself." The species is in no way an excuse. They do not have to eat, or at least kill. Remilia could easily get People to become her Food for some trades. As an example, she could Change the fate of a Person into "becoming a Rockstar" or "getting a harem" in Exchange for regular Access to the persons blood. Do this a couple of times and the Food source is clear. She is just too lazy and uncaring of humans to do such a thing.

Now, there is a number of possibilities for this.

1. Ask Keine to Change the reality so nobody remembers that Remilia existed/we killed her when she gains her full power.

2. Reincarnate her as something else then a Vampire after killing her.

3. Search for some way to put a permanent geas on her and hope that she cannot get around that with her fate Manipulation.

4. Ignore the Problem and hope it goes away. (Highly unlikely because of the MC's nature and personality and history.)

5. Turn her to Stone, or imprison her in a subspace pocket (or something similar) and wait until you can come up with a better idea.

Idea one has some merit, but I am unsure just how far reaching her powers are at the full and if she can really warp reality to that degree. I am also unsure what that would do to Remis little sister.

Idea 2 seems pretty workable if we can get her into a form that is helpless and human and squishy. Hell, it would be hilarious if she developed a crush on wizanon for killing her and then bringing her back from hell. (Because seriously, where do you think she will end up in Gensokyo's afterlife?) Though that could get us in Trouble with the Lord/Lady of death.

Idea 3 would take some time. I am not Aware of any permanent geas in DnD and unfortunately we don't have time right now. We could of course Combine it with idea 5.

Idea 4 is very unlikely because Wizanon is human and a very good Person. He has his faults, but allowing murder in his presence is not one of them. What difference does it make that These People are considered the waste of Society. It doesn't make it right in the slightest. The poor and sick and bad People deserve the right to life like anyone else. There is always potential in life and something that can be achieved even by the most useless appearing Person.

Idea 5 will only really work if we find some way to hold her. We could try to transform her into silver (It has a Connection to vampires, right?) or something similar, or throw her into a plane that is totally empty, but unfortunately Patchouli could become a Problem in this. She could also become a Problem in idea 3, but I don't really expect her to do anything there because she didn't really want People to die and only helped because she felt helpless like Sakuya.

Did I really write that much? Well, hope it helps somewhat.
>> No. 168271
>>168270

All of your ideas are silly and implausible.
>> No. 168273
>>168270
Don't listen to >>168271. Your ideas are interesting, and have given us more insight on how to solve this dilemma.

We should use 5 for now, then we can prepare to use 3. 1 is most likely impossible unless Deme wants to wank Keine's power and 4 is out of the question. And I don't know how we'll do 2, though I believe turning her into a human is the ideal solution.
>> No. 168274
[X] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168276
Imprisoning/sealing happened in gensokyo before and was even mentioned in this quest before.

>>168265
Because nobody used meta knowledge in this quest before.
>> No. 168277
>>168270

Interesting ideas. There's still the problem that, in character, Wizanon is out for blood, and I'm not sure what would suddenly change his mind, but if something did happen (like Keine asking him to relent, maybe) it might be worth a shot if Remilia is incapacitated enough that we can afford to try.

With that in mind:

[x] Finish Remilia
|-[x] ...with Flesh to Stone, if it's feasible, and Keine tries to talk us down
|-[x] ...and stash her in Mordekiens Magnificent Mansion for extra safe keeping
>> No. 168278
[x]Finish that bitch.
>> No. 168279
[x] Stand your ground.
>> No. 168281
We have two options, or we attack, with the risck of being blindsided by a curve all or we stand our ground, with the risck of alouing time to the vampire to regroup.

Not only that, but during the course of battle wizardannom was putting it as a prey and predator fight.

What would a predator do? Wath would a prey do?

And more important wath would a long lived predator do? The fact that the little vamp lord survived to this day and that the others yokais belived it would be to much of a hassle to deal with her directly means that she isn't someone to take for granted.

Most of our higher level spells are gone.

With all that, if we hold our ground, I believe she will attemp to run, to figth another day in a batlefield of her choosing... We barelly had enougth juice to force the battle... Which all of that in consideration, I believe that we should go for the kill, but with enough presence to be able to deal which anny surprise attack.
>> No. 168283
Already cast my vote, but here's an idea we could've investigated.

>Ignore Remi for now
>Find way out of Gensokyo and back home
>Alert Celestia to presence of epic-tier vampire about to overthrow an entire sub-plane
>sit back and watch the fireworks


>watch them glare disapprovingly at Tenshi
>> No. 168289
>>168288
>it is a choice

Show me on the list where "let Remillia live" is sitting, please.
>> No. 168290
>>168289
I presume standing one's ground means delaying the moment of killing and seeing what's really going on while fending off the ghosts.

It may not be truly the merciful choice, but it certainly isn't the hasty reckless one.
>> No. 168291
>>168288
>you're just looking for any excuse to kill a non-human

...You still believe that we're doing all of this just because Remilia is a non-human?

Keep doing those mental gymnastics, eh mate?

>inb4 "It's not Wizanon's fault then" bullshit

Well, yeah, it's not his fault. It's the murderer's fault.

Besides, who do you think will die anyway?
>> No. 168293
>>Besides, who do you think will die anyway?

Youmu
>> No. 168301
I feel like the question of "is barging in here to kill Youkai in their Youkai preserve the right thing to do" is disingenuous. We're not talking about rhinos getting overhunted; we're talking about powerful sapient beings with the capacity to think and speak. They don't need protection, because they should be able to openly advocate for themselves. If they insist on living in secret, then it's ridiculous to expect humans to make choices respecting something they literally aren't allowed to know about.

Well, in the first place, the thing that WIZANON thought was contemptible in the followers was there belief that "we couldn't stop them, so we won't try." If the youkai want to convince him they're right, then he's going to respond to threats with violence. If they wanted to talk to him about it, that's fine, but since the only talk was oblique threats... So far, he's been told "don't step out of line or else you'll get squished," not "don't step out of line because the rules are just".

I think Wizanon might or might not do in the vamp. That he thinks she should die is guaranteed, but whether looking at Keine's freaked out face spooks him into thinking maybe killing her in a murderous haze is not correct is the real question.

Right now, I think that's the real question: whether WIZANON can save vs CRAZY RAGE.

If he fails, he's just going to splat the vamp; damn the torpedos and full speed ahead.

If he makes the save, then he'll just make a check vs tactics and pick whatever delivers the best victory.

The morality question is interesting, but right now, re: DAT VAMP, for him? That's mitigating circumstances on a magical serial killer, not a debate about ecological niches or whatever. Right now the objective is definitely "win the fight." He can argue morality all he wants, but in the middle of (winning!) a death match with a vamp is 100% the wrong time.

As a write-in...
This is ridiculous, but

[x] MAGE'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
There's a lot of goddam people around, and anybody else that shows up to dance would be her reinforcements, not yours. Time to take the party somewhere else! Open the door to your extradimensional mansion, +40 (approx) to push her in, shift into something that fits, follow; then close the door (shutting out ghosts, servants, etc.) You lose the lava, but no more interruptions! (Unless they are wizard enough to hack into your pocket world.)
TWO HATS ENTER - ONE HAT LEAVES
>> No. 168305
>>168301
Now that's a good idea. I'll vote for that, too.

[x] MAGE'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
There's a lot of goddam people around, and anybody else that shows up to dance would be her reinforcements, not yours. Time to take the party somewhere else! Open the door to your extradimensional mansion, +40 (approx) to push her in, shift into something that fits, follow; then close the door (shutting out ghosts, servants, etc.) You lose the lava, but no more interruptions! (Unless they are wizard enough to hack into your pocket world.)
TWO HATS ENTER - ONE HAT LEAVES
>> No. 168314
File 136840154367.jpg - (54.55KB , 640x480 , pleased bubbles.jpg ) [iqdb]
168314
>>168301

[x] MAGE'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

Two hats enter, one hat leaves! Welcome to my mansion, Remilia!
>> No. 168316
Guys. Guys. You're spelling it wrong.

[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

zombai goasts cannot enter this place
>> No. 168318
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

There are good write-ins, there are great write-ins, and then there's MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168319
[X]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

YES! PLEASE, ALL OF THIS YES!
>> No. 168321
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168323
>>168231

This is my vote, I'd like to change it to
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME, TWO HATS ENTER, ONE HAT LEAVES because that write in is amazing.
>> No. 168327
I think I'll actually vote this time.

[X] Mordenkainan's Magnificent Thunderdome

As an added bonus, we can control form and shape of the mansion, giving US the home field advantage.
>> No. 168329
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

TWO HATS ENTER – ONE DRAGON LEAVES
>> No. 168332
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168343
Even if Remilia wins, she can't leave.
>> No. 168347
>>168087
Changing to...
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
I can't ignore it.
>> No. 168349
>>168329
Here's another one for MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME!
>> No. 168356
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168357
Too many people are carrying over affection for a different depiction of Remilia onto this one.
This is not the difficult of a decision. Gensokyo may be a safe-hold for youkai but it is by the youkai's choice that it works on Might Makes Right. We are winning therefore we are right. Kill her as it is in character. Also she has no right to live after she justified her action by might makes right, then lost.

[X] Thunderdome to get away from the ghosts.
>> No. 168362
>>168310
Because we're totally killing those non-humans, starting with Keine and Cirno, we've lulled them into a false sense of security and soon the jaws of the trap will spring shut.

Nice strawman btw.
>> No. 168364
>>168357
what different impression? the only thing changed is the emphasis of her diet.

A vote spam check is definitely needed here.
>> No. 168376
>>168310
>making youkai go extinct
So what? If the youkai's logic are "Might Makes Right" like >>168357 said, then there's nothing wrong on driving them to extinction since they're weak and the humans are strong.

Besides, it can be seen as karma taking place, seeing how in the past the youkai were the strong one while the humans were the weak one.

>And your logic is the same of anyone who goes about ruining things indirectly, feeling no guilt over what their actions have caused.

We're not "ruining things". We're trying to make things right.

Of course there would be obstacles. Of course there would be those who'll try to threaten us just because we're trying to change things. That's all part of the risks.

Tell me, if a cop kills a gang member, and in return, the rest of the gang kills his wife and child, whose fault is this? The cop, or the gang members?
>> No. 168384
>>168380
>George W Bush

And now we're getting politics into this. Wonderful.

>if the Cop knew he was putting his family at risk, he'd have someone watching over them.

And that's what we should do as well.
>> No. 168389
>>168386
Well, a lil' bit too late for that now, isn't it?
>> No. 168395
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

Going with this one.

As to the whole "Youkai eating people is natural" stuff, I'll counter with this: "Humans killing things that try to eat us is also natural". Nuff said.
>> No. 168399
MORDENKAISER'S MAGNIFICENT MANSION.

hue hue hue hue hue
>> No. 168402
Guys, if we want to cast another spell, we need to drop our Iron Skin first, and that's probably a very Bad Idea.
>> No. 168403
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
... With Keine.

followed by turning her to stone (Via cockatrice, basilisk or else). Gives us time to discuss with Keine about what should be done.
>> No. 168404
File 136845563143.jpg - (340.77KB , 800x2407 , iron_body.jpg ) [iqdb]
168404
>>168402
Technically you can cast spells under iron body spell but yeah 50% chance of failing is pretty bad.
>> No. 168405
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168406
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME
>> No. 168407
>>168404

Patchouli: "Mr. Wizard, the probability of successfully casting Mordekien's Magnificent Mansion with Iron Body active is approximately 3,720 to 1!"

Wizanon: "Never tell me the odds!"

>>168277

This is my vote, I'm also changing the main part to:

[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME

...but I'd still keep the bits in that post about making the finishing blow some kind of petrification, whether Flesh to Stone/Basilisk/Cockatrice/whatever, if it can be justified. It still stops the killing stone cold (nyuk nyuk nyuk) while putting us in at least a somewhat better politically since we didn't technically irreversibly KILL her, and it keeps more options open going forward in case something comes of this we weren't expecting.

Besides. We've been kinda rough on Keine's garden over the course of this quest, and who knows? A nice Remilia-shaped lawn ornament might be just the thing to spruce it back up a bit...

(And yes, I know that last paragraph is not actually a good idea practically speaking, but I couldn't resist the image.)
>> No. 168409
[x]MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT THUNDERDOME!!!
>> No. 168411
>quanity over quality somehow being useful against a wizard

A HA HA HA HA HA
>> No. 168412
The ghosts are almost certainly less than 7 HD each so
[X]Shapeshift into Astral Deva, use Holy Word to remove the entire army from the equation inconvenience Remilia
>> No. 168413
>>168412
you don't get spell-like abilites or known spells when shapechanging
>> No. 168414
Do we know Command Undead, or anything like that?
>> No. 168416
>>168269
>>168267
>>168263

"Not have to herd on vampire coat tails"
Why would we? WizAnon isn't some "protector of the realm," he's a vigilante at the moment. There's no need to kill if the target is of no threat. Let Reimu, Marisa, Sanae, etc. keep Remilia in check. It's none of WizAnon's concern as his stated goal is getting home.
>> No. 168417
>>168416
>It's none of WizAnon's concern as his stated goal is getting home.

Yeah, I'm afraid that goal is changing right as we speak.

And if that truly is our only goal, might as well let Youmu die. She's not our concern after all.
>> No. 168421
I like how both sides of debate managed by now to use same arguments for their side.
>> No. 168425
File 136848037793.jpg - (25.38KB , 250x192 , 1310145477467.jpg ) [iqdb]
168425
>tons of amazingly good discussion

Traditionally I have avoided making posts like these; primarily because I feel its all stuff that should be explained in the story, or at least easily inferred from it. But Rabbit's success at explaining/elaborating on his story, and the unique problems of CYOA format and my own shitty update schedule have changed my mind. Someone reading the story after its finished won't need these posts to understand things, but for current readers the answers often come many weeks after the question was asked, which is a real pain in the ass. Thus:

>>168185
>Here in lies the problem. WizAnon was directed to Remilia by Yuyuko, who is major player in Gensokyo and has an interest in keeping things status quo. I'm betting she was expecting us to solve this with danmaku and the like; ritual spell duels to decide the victor, as is expected in world filled with magical lolis.

Precisely. Pay careful attention to the conversation in that story post: >>163580 Yuyuko reveals just enough of the truth about Flandre's diet to get Wizard angry, but she doesn't correct his incorrect assumptions - corpse-desecration is enough to make Wiznon want to kick Remilia's ass, but Wiznon would never suffer a mass-murderer to live, and Yuyuko knows it. And once he's riled, she sets the hook by telling him not to attack, and invoking Proper Channels. That's why Duke face-palms; he knows that's the best way to make Wiznon disobey... and so does Yuyuko. Simple reverse-psychology - and it worked. She read Wiznon well, riled him up just enough to apply "proper force," pointed him at Remilia, and sent him to go "solve the incident." And of course there are common-sense reasons for Wiznon to not engage Remilia in a life-or-death battle if he doesn't have to - she's hideously powerful, after all.

>Killing Remilia accomplishes what? Stopping a vampire from her "rebellion"? Sure. So does defeating her and letting her live. It also creates a massive power vacum and upsets the power balance in Gensokyo, and breaks the status quo, the very thing the powerful players in charge, the ones who are already using us as a tool, want to maintain.

That's the entire point.

Trying to fully explain that was simply too much exposition to cram into those tense pre-battle scenes; and it will be reflected upon by the characters after the chaos, but the discussion's taking place now, so I'll expound upon it now. >>165724 is the story post in which Wizard realizes that "incidents" and those who resolve them are entirely a shell-game run by powerful youkai; as I said here >>165941 Kanako said as much to him, in as many words. He simply hadn't realized he was currently in one, for multiple reasons. That's why he starts laughing when he sees Remilia and Keine squaring off, trading insults and summoning their weapons - he can see it for the big song-and-dance it is. Keine hasn't seen it yet; she's terribly smart, at least Wizard's equal if not better, but her anger's been riled by Remilia's insult (just as Remilia intended,) so she's not slowing down to think.

Sakuya (who was in on the secret) and Patchouli, who's smart as hell and not distracted, have realized this; and they both know Wiznon well enough now to know exactly how he's going to react.

>Everyone present stares at you in disbelief as you completely crack up. Keine's offended seriousness, Remilia's shaken confidence, Meiling's bafflement and fear, Koakuma's timid peeking from the relative shelter of the stacks; it's all funny as hell. But it's Patchouli and Sakuya's drawn, bloodless faces that really put things over the top, because a joke isn't perfect if there's no one to share it with. The dissonance 'twixt threat and transparent theatrics; so visible now, is too much to stand.

That Remilia and Flandre eat innocent people is one thing; they're vampires, monsters, and that's what monsters do, just as exterminating them is what the Good Guys do. But an institutionalized system where such murders are condoned and orchestrated - where some people's lives are arbitrarily judged to be of greater inherent worth then others - is deliberate evil. Recall Wiznon's attitudes, his (lack of) respect for Authority and Proper Channels (as his opinion and prior dealings with Celestial bureaucracy illustrate,) and the grim, violent, nonstop crusade against evil he's engaged upon for most of his brief adult life. To a man like Wiznon, feeding "undesirables" to vampires for the "greater good" is the worst kind of evil.

There are other good reasons to kill Remilia; aside from the flat-out fact of her being a murdering monster, there's the fact that she's trying to usurp the local power-balance herself, as she admitted, and Wiznon doesn't think for a moment that whipping her Incident Style will permanently quell the threat:

>“Name my cards?” you manage through your chuckles. “A whipping? So you can ooze back into your hole and start your backup plan?” Remilia's mad grin goes brittle around the edges. “Like a vampire that manipulates Fate itself won't lay plans like that when the local cleric's gone twelve-for-twelve?”

But of equal importance to Wiznon is that killing Remilia will kick the current status quo right in the nuts. He considers the current status quo to be evil incarnate.

Whether he's right about that is where differing opinions on morality conundrums come into play, of course - but this is what Wizard thinks, and why he's doing what he is.

Which leads us to this guy, who made a really good post y'all should pay attention to:

>>168301
>Right now, I think that's the real question: whether WIZANON can save vs CRAZY RAGE.

Yes. Literally everything in this post is spot-on; pay attention to it! The only elaboration I can offer is that Wiznon's CRAZY RAGE isn't fully recoverable at this point; he's in the midst of it. In fact, he only noticed the zombai goasts because someone was hitting him with enough danmaku to force him to divert a little attention from Remilia. He took a lot of damage in that fight, and now he's facing down a horde of zombai goasts which he knows are much more powerful then the first bunch... and yet the only other option is to "stand his ground" and do his damndest to destroy them all.

Engaging the new, healthy threat is obviously more prudent for survival; but failing to kill Remilia may mean the entire battle was for naught, and he may never get this close again. Or, killing Remilia, who is controlling and raising the ghosts, may render them all harmless, and achieve victory - but to do it he'll have to ignore incoming attacks and go straight for the jugular.

In retrospect I should have worded the votes differently, ala "how do you feel" rather then as tactical options. Wiznon not going to Bad End, here; this vote is entirely about Wiznon as a character, as a man. "You" all are playing him; living in his shoes, so think of it that way. You have a chance to end a monstrous evil, to give countless murdered innocents justice - and if you don't do it, nobody else will, not even the Gods. As you told Yuyuko, if you can't bend Heaven, you will move Hell. What else do you live for, if not for this? What could possibly be more important then striking the final blow?

Anon, as Wiznon, will have to answer that question.

>>168224
Good for you for considering Keine in all this; she's definitely a major issue in the plot. However, you've got the Wizard/Keine power dynamics a little backwards - in both this story and canon, Keine is very powerful, and Ex-Keine is horrendously powerful, even according to ZUN (who has wisely made a point of avoiding 'powerlevel' comments, for the most part, making that even more significant.) That's why... well, shit, right from a story post:

>“Patchouli alone is in my weight class,” you tell Keine. “Much less Sakuya... and especially Meiling.” It's hard to cast spells with a broken jaw and your arms tied in a pretzel; which is why you never discount martial specialists – especially if they have innate magic to boot, like Meiling. “Why didn't they just beat the shit out of me and steal my shit? Or just ask me nicely; a research trade, and wave goodbye as I plane-shifted home, with the beating as plan B?”

>“Because I would have...” Keine replies instantly, her hands balling into fists. “I... oh.”

This is also why the truth of the Vampire Pact was hidden from Keine by Akyuu; if she knew, shit would have hit the fan long ago. Wiznon's impact in Gensokyo owes in no small part to his influence on Keine - and until now, Certain People thought that was the only reason he had impact. Which is why Remilia focused on baiting Keine into a classic rules-regulated duel; she didn't think Wizard was anywhere near capable of kicking her fucking ass. (Patchouli and Sakuya, on the other hand, just learned better.)

That doesn't meant that Keine is invincible, or that Wizard doesn't have more vulnerable friends he cares about, or even that Wizard won't be targeted to get Keine to back off, so your point is still valid.

And then this:

>In the end, I believe that wizardanon's goals should still be the ones that he had before he got into this entire mess- find a way back into his dimension.

... is that still his goal? He's had access to both his own spellbooks and Patchouli's tomes for more then long enough; he can summon Duke (for greatly reduced durations) and use Summon Monster well enough; implying the magical difficulties of escaping Gensokyo aren't that insurmountable with sufficient scholastic resources, which he's had for a few days. Just when did his goals change? And why? Wiznon hasn't even slowed down to question this; other characters soon will, however.

>>168215
>>168225

You. You're That Guy who keeps making statements like this; like half the voters just want to kill Remilia to stroke their HFY murderboner. Please read these posts:

>>168223
>I mean, good grief, have you been LISTENING to Wizanon's internal monologue for these past few updates?

>>168227
>Wizanon has, throughout most of his adventuring career, been quite capable of successfully damning the consequences. It's entirely out of character (not to mention dramatically unreasonable) for him to start doing so now, in the middle of a fight.

Furthermore, speaking to lethal violence between Youkai and Humans: the spell-card system is a relatively recent invention, submitted by Reimu herself (and it's all but stated in canon that it was actually Yukari's idea.) The prior Hakeuri miko, (cleverly named Hakeuri Miko) went around violently beating youkai to death with her fucking fists. And remember that Gensokyo was originally settled by youkai hunters, and the people that made money selling them shit (all those kunai have to come from somewhere.) So the current Village population consists of people descended from ultimate badasses. Settling matters through plain old-fashioned Ultraviolence isn't an alien concept in Gensokyo, not by a damn sight.

You're certainly right about Wiznon's rage and all, but as others have pointed out, that is 100% in his character. And Remilia is fucking evil. And lethal violence in Gensokyo isn't terribly novel, even measuring by human lifespans.

tl;dr, when it comes to "you all just want to murder youkai because HFY murderboner haw," you need to shut the fuck up. This has nothing to do with the story, really, its just a stupid argument to be making in every other post and it annoys the hell out of me.
>> No. 168426
>>168425
>tl;dr, when it comes to "you all just want to murder youkai because HFY murderboner haw," you need to shut the fuck up. This has nothing to do with the story, really, its just a stupid argument to be making in every other post and it annoys the hell out of me.

Thank you, Deme, for calling him out. I've had enough of him popping out in this thread and throwing trite insults like that.

>You have a chance to end a monstrous evil, to give countless murdered innocents justice - and if you don't do it, nobody else will, not even the Gods. As you told Yuyuko, if you can't bend Heaven, you will move Hell. What else do you live for, if not for this? What could possibly be more important then striking the final blow?

And that's why I opt to finish Remilia first. And "finishing" doesn't necessarily mean "killing".

Ideally, Remilia miraculously gives up her whole "eating humans" shtick. Of course, that would be totally unrealistic considering her own arrogance and the Wizard's lack of persuasion skill (hey, he's a wizard, not a bard).

Failing that, we get the option of removing her, either permanently by killing her, or temporarily by turning her into stone until we can find a better solution. And I feel turning her into stone is better since we should only kill her if we have no other choice.
>> No. 168428
Speaking of Keine... where exactly IS she? She clocked Remilia one in the middle of the fight and then just sorta... disappears? The rest of the update is framed as a protracted one-on-one between Wizanon and Remilia, with no mention of anything happening to her, any other sources of danmaku being thrown into the fray or... anything, really. Seems like she's either been following quietly without shooting at Remilia anymore herself for some reason, or else she's off doing something elsewhere.

Maybe she needed to skedaddle to get the unconscious Sakuya and Meiling to safety?
>> No. 168429
>>168428

Possibly that, possibly things were just too freaking intense to get in between him and Remilia. I lean towards the latter.

I haven't actually cast a vote yet, because I was thinking it over. But after reading Deme's post, I feel that we can't give Remilia the chance to get away.

Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead.

[x] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168434
>>168428

That's a really good question, isn't it?
>> No. 168435
>>168434
>phone keyboards

Aurgh
>> No. 168436
[x] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168441
>>168425
>... is that still his goal? He's had access to both his own spellbooks and Patchouli's tomes for more then long enough; he can summon Duke (for greatly reduced durations) and use Summon Monster well enough; implying the magical difficulties of escaping Gensokyo aren't that insurmountable with sufficient scholastic resources, which he's had for a few days. Just when did his goals change? And why? Wiznon hasn't even slowed down to question this; other characters soon will, however.

In my opinion, yes it is still his goal, He's still around because something is wrong, and it's in his nature to fix those things when he finds them, just as it would be against his nature to be trapped in one place, never being able to aid others who need it elsewhere.

He may make this place his home, he may retire here with Keine, but ending his crusade? Not something I see him doing. So yes, he would still have leaving as a goal, leaving and being able to come back to those he cares about.
>> No. 168442
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT MANSION!!!
-[x] Also, use something like stone to flesh rather than straightforward killing, because you don't know if she can respawn like a normal vampire or devil outside the Nine could, and such a technique would prevent that.

>>168425
>The prior Hakeuri miko, (cleverly named Hakeuri Miko) went around violently beating youkai to death with her fucking fists.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but for those who are not, that character is actually a non-canon character designed for MUGEN. In canon, danmaku have been used in Gensokyo, as well as in surrounding dimensions, for as long as is recorded, with or without spellcards. Danmaku outside of present Gensokyo are and were just more deadly, at least, if those involved are actually aiming to kill each other. (Shooting down each other's war machines also counts.)
>> No. 168443
[x] Finish Remilia

Because, really, at this point Wiznon is really, really committed to delivering some harsh punishment to Remilia. Not following through on that would be a mistake.

The way I see it, allowing him to be distracted by ghosts is just going to allow him to be beset on two sides, whereas finishing Remi off would at least shorten the threat list, if not clearing both simultaneously.

Bottom line: Stay On Target.
>> No. 168444
>>168442
>Prior Hakurei Miko not official canon
That is true, but from what Deme's saying, she's canon for the AWiY storyline.

Minor point of curiosity: Is Hakurei Miko Reimu's mother in this story, or is she just the previously chosen Miko of the Hakurei bloodline?
>> No. 168448
>>168425
Your perspective of Gensokyo confirms for me that killing her is the 'right' choice.

It really does confuse me that some people think that the human village is in Gensokyo to be a sacrificial food source or something. After all, if the barrier was created to be a haven for youkai, why does a human rule over it?
>> No. 168452
>>168441
Maybe in front of him but there are signs that he's tiring of his past lifestyle and Keine and Cirno could give him something more stable.

I do hope what Deme said about influencing his character doesn't negatively affect his chances of settling down as an Adventurer without a goal will ultimately vanish.

>>168443
This is assuming that Remilia is still in a shape to fight, but if this is what you strongly believe, then there's no point trying to press the point further.


>>168444
Ask Deme.

>>168448
Because Reimu isn't alone in running things, in fact Yukari's the major runner of things in the shadows, Reimu's mainly the peace keeper.

The way I see things in Gensokyo is that the humans function as belief providers which both youkai and gods need. And even being scared to leave the village would function to sustain most youkai.

As for the youkai role? Keeping overpopulation down and giving the active hunters something to do.
>> No. 168453
[x] Finish remilia

thank you demetrious finally someone understands that wiznon doesn't care about the status quo and that he well and truly enjoys disrupting it when he views it as evil
>> No. 168455
>>168425
I don't if you was trying to but you talked me into it.
[x] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168458
>>168442

Certainly. Not really germane to the point - the difference between danmaku as pretty dodgeballs and danmaku as lethal battle-magic is simply one of degree - but it'd just be cooler if the former miko went around literally slapping youkai shit.
>> No. 168461
[x] Finish Her

My god. I keep wanting to vote for the THUNDERDOME write-in, but at the same time that spell failure possibility terrifies me. One round is a lot in a fight like this.

Personally speaking, it's likely safer to just bash Remi's head in, and if we go down we can (probably) rely on Keine to take out the bunch of low levels and/or just drag us out of here.

Even as an in-character decision--is Wiznon willing to possibly sacrifice himself to end a great evil? Yes. Very yes. It is who he is.
>> No. 168463
Personally, I feel the question here isn't of morality, or even of character. It's of survival.

There are, IMO, two responsibilities we have as voters. The first is to play a character - in character, as a character would play. But the second is to keep that character alive and finish the story, even when the character would have no business surviving (see: every Ordinary Human in Gensoukyou plot ever.)

For quite some time, that has been my concern. The entire morality debate can hang; there are good arguments on both sides, especially with Remilia as written, I have no stakes in either boat.

But for quite some time, I've been worried about the consequences of this mad rage. And while it is most definitely in character for Wizanon to blast Remilia to her final death right now, it is not the optimal choice, from an out-of-character perspective. I had been hoping to guide Wizanon away from immediate satisfaction, but... yeah, Anonymous overruled.

Now we're basically stuck killing her, or at least trying to kill her. I suppose we could switch to standing our ground, but that's where in-character considerations come back on - with neither option particularly optimal, Wizanon deciding to hold off on the great perceived evil is ... odd, to say the least.

If we have a way of taking her out non-lethally, well, we might as well. Otherwise, ... I won't say "damn the torpedoes," so much as "well, frak, can't dodge the torpedoes."

So...

[X] Non-lethal takedown.
--[X] If that's not an option, finish the job.
>> No. 168469
>>168463
I do suspect standing your group means taking on the ghosts first and see what else happens while going for the finishing blow risks opening up to possible ghost attacks and whatever else that got over looked.

But sad to say you're fighting a losing battle. I've resigned myself in hoping what happens next isn't bad in the long run.
>> No. 168471
>>168452
I'm not saying whether or not he'll actually leave there, just saying that to him, being trapped in one place would be a terrible fate, as in he can be satisfied staying there so long as he knows he can always leave if needed elsewhere, and being willing to leave when called for such, if he knows he can come back.
>> No. 168472
>>168471
That could be debated as there are signs that he was growing tired of adventuring (and quite possibly watching people die).

That and Gensokyo isn't exactly a tiny place.
>> No. 168473
>>168472
Once again, I'm not saying he'd leave, just that the very concept of being trapped in one place would cause him to search and struggle for a way to leave.

If he knows he can leave at any time then he's fairly likely to stay so long as he has a reason to (keine).
>> No. 168475
No. 168425 This, THIS is why this story is good. For too damn long people have been infatuated with wanking endlessly about how moral a bunch of man eating monsters are and how much better touohu is than everything else.
It's about time that something changed the status que or god forbid made them fight on their level for their supposed right to destroy/ farm people.

HFY is not a good term for this, nor is this people being sick of the current site "rules" where every character is weak and pathetic and every single story is about people bowing down and submitting to Gensokyo. It is a good setting for writing and has a lot of potential, yet no story can exist without meaningful conflict. And any story where there is no danger of anyone getting hurt or killed is not a story with meaningful conflict. Yes you can have a nonviolent story that focuses on character or growth, but touhou is not a setting that lends itself to that. No, this is a story with a focus on combat and as such needs the fighting to have a point.
>> No. 168476
>>168425
Thank you Demetrious. Thank you for clearing up something that many of the readers did not pick up on or otherwise didn't remember. Hopefully, it will clear up any lingering doubts as to what's going on.

Now, with that cleared up, I'd like to state my feelings on the story in general.

First of all, thank you. Your story was the one which brought me to THP in the first place (and years before I first ventured to /tg/ at that), shortly after I began getting into Touhou. Without it, I wouldn't be here.


Looking back, your story has done several things well. First and foremost, you write excellent humorous shenanigans. Although, as you indicated in >>/blue/16909 romantic comedy was not what you were trying to write. Even so, it worked in a way that was incredibly enjoyable.

Second, you've done an excellent job of characterizing Wizard. He is certainly one of the more complex protagonists here. Duke has been another enjoyable, if not especially complex, character. Keine has an enjoyable dynamic with Wizard.


As for my complaints, there are four:

First off, most of your Touhous aren't much beyond bland portrayals. Most don't appear for long enough to need much characterization (obligatory little sister/daughter Cirno aside) so it normally wouldn't be much of a problem. Yet there's one character who hasn't had the proper level of characterization to her importance, Remilia. She's had minimal characterization beyond smug evil bitch to be hated/purged since before Wizard even met her.

Next, the matter of power. Before the almost inevitable power-level argument that will follow my post, I just want to say that Wizard should by no means be doing this well. He's dispatched two very powerful characters and is about to execute a third. And it comes across as routine, almost effortless for him. He had more trouble fighting a fucking gazebo. In fact, in that fight, it actually felt like he was in mortal danger. Now, Remilia clearly isn't the final antagonist, but she hardly even comes across as a threat.

Third, your explanation of the ghosts as basically lolSeiga. Not only was Ten Desires not even announced at the time this story started, as far as I am aware it takes place just after Soku. It feels like an afterthought and a plot device to be able to explain Remilia as being the villain. I honestly don't know if you had decided on Remilia being the villain from the start, but I can't shake the feeling you hadn't. It feels as though she was convenient for the role because she was the only character Wizard hated intrinsically.

My final complaint is your positively glacial update rate. Now, I understand life getting in the way or not feeling motivated. I'm guilty of not updating my own story in much too long. What I mean to say is that there is a disconnect between reader and writer perception. As a writer, you probably think about your story every day. With all the plot threads a story entails, not thinking about it almost constantly is the path to fuckups and contradiction. Conversely, readers only tend to think about a story while they're reading it, deciding on a particularly difficult vote, or remembering a particularly excellent part. For a good example of the disconnect, see the Theater of Youth Teruyo vs readers shitstorm. Essentially, what ou think of as *important, immediately relevant thing that happened a week ago in story* readers see as *character X said something I can't remember like two and a half years ago*. It's unfair for readers to have to marathon the last 24 threads to make an educated decision. It is [i]also unfair to expect you to summarize everything which has happened so far every time you post.


Fuck, why do my posts always turn out so long. I guess I wanted to say everything I've never said in a previous thread.

I'll put it bluntly.

I'm dropping this story.

The toxic HFY vs anti-HFY mentality that's cropped up, coupled with the above problems, has sapped all enjoyment I get from this story. I feel tired and ill just skimming the last few threads. Even the old ones are ruined for me, not by the current problems, but by the realization of how much of an insufferable asshole Wizard is to anyone not in his immediate circle of people to protect.

I guess I'll stick around to see Demetrious' reply, but as of the next update, I'll just start minimizing these threads.
>> No. 168477
>>168475
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Honestly, I'm already tired of stories where the OC main character befriends Touhous and Gensokyo in general. I think it's about time stories like this start appearing, where the OC sees something wrong with Gensokyo and he/she wants to fix it, essentially fighting the status quo.

Of course, if all stories are about OCs kicking Touhou butt, I wouldn't like it too. I want balance. I believe we need more stories like this up until a certain point. And that point is still far away.

>>168476
Ah, I know posts like these, sooner or later, will come out. I can definitely see some readers being turned off by this story "evolving" from a romantic comedy to a "crusade against Gensokyo".

Personally, this evolution is what I desire. I don't need yet another romantic comedy hijinks Touhou story. There are a lot of those already. What we need more is stories like this.
>> No. 168478
>>168475
How many stories have you read on the site? The "every main character is weak" thing? recent stories moved away from that in various ways and I can imagine people being wary of making their leads too strong lest "Mary sue" gets tossed at them.

Not to mention you outright stereotyped the entire population of touhou fandom when it's only a minority of jackasses that claim "Touhou>everything"

I dare say that you're talking about is what the early detractors of this story were accusing it of.

>>168476
You're not alone in your sentiments while I haven't declared an outright drop, but it looks like this story is changing from what I liked about it. If it goes as I fear, I dare say it'd belong on /tg/ as someone in a past thread claimed "it's /tg/'s story".

I've noticed some of those flaws as well and while I had faith in them being fixed, even that's being worn away steadily.

Only the next update will reveal if these fears are merely unfounded or proven. Too bad we'll have to wait a month or so to find out.

>>168477
If it turns out to be DnD wizard curb stomps Gensokyo, like people were accusing at first, there would be many more people dropping it as they liked it as it was a mix of adventure, comedy and bits of romance.

And for your information, this site was FOUNDED on romantic hijinks and befriending youkai.
>> No. 168479
>>168477
I hear that, this site has enough slice of life for a hundred years. It's nice to see stories that aren't afraid to get the status quo, put in a box, and send it to the sun.

As for the other guy complaints, ignoring the other three ('your fanon isn't my fanon' 'characters with little screentime have little screentime' and 'your plot point since day one seems sudden to me') I can see how his update speed can get people down.
>> No. 168480
>>168478
>How many stories have you read on the site? The "every main character is weak" thing? recent stories moved away from that in various ways and I can imagine people being wary of making their leads too strong lest "Mary sue" gets tossed at them.

By "weak", he means this.

>every single story is about people bowing down and submitting to Gensokyo

>Not to mention you outright stereotyped the entire population of touhou fandom when it's only a minority of jackasses that claim "Touhou>everything"

Oh, really? I beg to differ. There are a lot of people like that in the fandom.

If they're a minority, then they're damn loud at it.

>If it turns out to be DnD wizard curb stomps Gensokyo, like people were accusing at first, there would be many more people dropping it as they liked it as it was a mix of adventure, comedy and bits of romance.

Yep, you're one of those "Touhou>everything" people. We're just getting started and the battle wasn't easy at all. It's not like the Wizard just came up to Remilia and use Power Word to instantly kill her.

>And for your information, this site was FOUNDED on romantic hijinks and befriending youkai.

I don't care what this site was founded on. I want good stories. And that's all I care about.
>> No. 168485
>>168448
Because they made the barrier in the first place.

Symposium give us a message loud and clear, and no amount of 'Hieda is exaggerating' whining will make us deaf. What is that message? That humans are worthless, cattle, pets in a zoo. They're as important and, at the same time, as worthless to them as trees are to us. Sure, we need them to live, but that doesn't stop us from killing thousands of them per month.

AWiy is fun because, like all fanfiction, it is a kind of wish-fulfillment. In this case, the wish is 'I'd like that humans would matter more in this setting'
>> No. 168488
>>168476
> I just want to say that Wizard should by no means be doing this well.

I don't think you know anything about how 3.5 wizards work.

They are batman

Tf they have prep time they win.

Also I think you're a humongous tool for dropping a story because of it's -update speed-
>> No. 168492
I would like to vote to kill Remilia, but seriously, will she die? Not bloody likely, as there will most likely be somekind of plot armor to save her or Reimu/Yukari/Flan/? intervenese or some such shit.

Not that the other option is much better as its just foolish to stay and figth the horde of ghosts when you have used almost all of your spells, and you would loose your chance to off the bitch whose controlling the ghosts anyways.

Its not that bad if Remilia dies either, sure Flander will be pissed and will go on a roaring rampage of revenge but when has not wizannon being in a tight spot.

What comes to so called "status quo", if i remeber my touhou canon correctly (which i dont as i have never played any of the games), Remilia and her entourage came to touhou recently so its not like touhou need Remilia for enything unlike say Reimu.

Before anyone start bitching how it would be bad fo humans as it might destoroy the spellcard system, do humans need it for anything? They have survived in touhou before, and its not like it was made to protect youkai. And would it even get destoroyed because some human decided to ingnore it and managed to kill a vampire hmm?

Only problem whit killing Remilia is the reaction of Flander,Sakuya and Patchy as i dont think anyone else would bother to do anything to him as he only killed Remilia, and as long as he dosent go all 'Kill all youkai' route, i dont see a reason for anyone to go after him, unless they were friends whit Remilia and as she is such a bitch, well.
>> No. 168506
>>168492
You need a proofreader for your posts. Some knowledge of the setting too.
Common sense wouldn't hurt either.
>> No. 168512
>>168480
Not really. you're blithely generalizing things. I just don't think a Lv18 Wizard should be able to effortlessly beat a vampire one on one, though I'm not ruling out a hard victory.

And THOSE people? A INSANELY vocal part of the population.

If it gets as bad as I think, it'd akin to a case of "Edward Alric killing 50 death eaters with ease", and that's hardly good writing.

>>168485
>Humans mattering more in gensokyo

You mean where most youkai see the Hakurei as the boogieman? Or at least the two humans that do go about resolving incidents are taken quite seriously by the powers that are.

I don't think youkai are so stupid as to go removing a part of the population as for one, such a thing would provoke Reimu to do a more permanent removal. That and if things were truly that bad it'd have been mentioned in one of the back stories/story files. The case in IN was a result of the fake full moon throwing things into chaos.

>>168488
I doubt taking down a rather high level vampire in DnD is that easy, though with 3.5 being the caster edition I might be able to see that.

>>168492
You over look the fact that after the incident the SDM established itself as a faction and with the ensuing incidents, it ends up keeping the others in check (as well as they keeping the SDM in check)

Though admitting you've never played the game makes it a bit hard to take you seriously but you do raise a couple of decent points.

The Spellcard rules are more for youkai being able to attack Reimu and not risk imploding Gensokyo and/or Reimu not killing them effortlessly. It exists to prevent one side from utterly massacring the other, though the common use is making sure incidents don't have massive body counts caused by Reimu and Marisa.
>> No. 168513
>>168512
>You mean where most youkai see the Hakurei as the boogieman?

A decent point but not good enough: Reimu doesn't really care unless they call her actively and they don't, because they see her as a Youkai sympathizer instead of their only hope. As for the biggest things, they just keep her in the dark. Probably easier than it sounds.
As for Marisa, she lacks empathy in a level that makes her seem more magician than human.

So yeah, humans keep dying (outsiders mostly, but they don't matter right?) the Hakurei keeps sleeping, and nobody cares.
>> No. 168514
File 136855310990.jpg - (134.18KB , 500x500 , 1338502868853.jpg ) [iqdb]
168514
>>168476
>First off, most of your Touhous aren't much beyond bland portrayals. Most don't appear for long enough to need much characterization (obligatory little sister/daughter Cirno aside) so it normally wouldn't be much of a problem. Yet there's one character who hasn't had the proper level of characterization to her importance, Remilia. She's had minimal characterization beyond smug evil bitch to be hated/purged since before Wizard even met her.

That's quite true, and it's something that's bothered me. On the other hand, part of this is deliberate; Wizard is proceeding largely on his prior dealings/knowledge/assumptions about vampires. To him, they're all alike after a certain point. That familiarity has stood him well so far, but Remilia is far from a 'classic' vampire; after all, she walks around outside with naught but a parasol.

>Next, the matter of power... Now, Remilia clearly isn't the final antagonist, but she hardly even comes across as a threat.

Next update should clear that perception right up. The interesting - and sometimes problematic - thing about the CYOA format is the second-person perspective. Wizard is currently in the throes of a truly terrifying rage; he isn't paying much attention to his own hit-point tally at the moment.

Wizard cannot compete in terms of raw power with nearly anyone in Gensokyo. He's won all his fights by being very smart, very aggressive, and in part simply by being novel; the locals aren't expecting someone with such varied abilities. The Art of War is what lets him compete, not raw power - that's why the Gazebo ambush nearly wasted him; it was an ambush. Conversely, in kicking down the SDM's door he knew the ground ahead of time, and by using magic lava and a good Shapechange selection he was able to convert the enemy stronghold into terrain that benefited him. And then he had to sucker Remilia into activating his trap spell. And the bitch still isn't dead yet.

Wiznon survived the low levels, where wizards have a few Magic Missiles, a light crossbow and damn little besides. He learned how to survive against superior odds: distract the enemy, then punch them in the balls.

For a story to be any good, the tension and stakes have to keep climbing as you near the climax. Now that his enemies (the Gazebo animator and Remilia) have taken his measure, and learned not to underestimate him, things are going to become much more difficult, and Wiznon will have to find new ways to keep one step ahead.

>Third, your explanation of the ghosts as basically lolSeiga.

Nah, she just gave Remilia the idea. The rest was Patchouli's expertise. In D&D terms, necromancy magic isn't anything terribly special; its only the high degree of specialization amongst magic-users in Gensokyo that made it tricky at all.

>My final complaint is your positively glacial update rate...what ou think of as *important, immediately relevant thing that happened a week ago in story* readers see as *character X said something I can't remember like two and a half years ago*.

Fucking A, friend. I said as much just a post ago. I used to read Megatokyo, which is internet infamous for its emo creator and his incredibly piss-poor time management and update rate... and he works on his webcomic full time. Instead of following it update-by-update, I stopped visiting the site and just purchased the manga-style book compilations when they came out, which proved a much more enjoyable read. And as you say, Wiznon's character development just isn't very obvious because of the longcat spacing of the updates; coming back after the story's done and reading through it in one go will probably be a lot more enjoyable.

>I'm dropping this story.

Just promise me you'll go read other, better stories here on THP. This site has a lot of talent, and its a lot bigger then just my story. I'd suggest Being Meiling over in /sdm/ and The Game, which you can find archived on the Story List.
>> No. 168515
>>168512
The fight hasn't been easy though. Wizanon has had to burn a considerable amount of high level spells, which due to the vancian nature of D&D casting cannot be regenerated easily. Remilia and Meiling have also landed a few solid hits, likely a lot more then can be effectively mitigated by whatever damage resistance he might have. Couple this with a wizard's low HP pool and lack of healing spells, and it looks like our wizard is actually in pretty big trouble here.

What I'm saying is that this definitely counts as a "hard victory."
>> No. 168516
>>168514

Whatever its flaws, I still really like this story. I don't think the characterization has been THAT bad, although some downtime with a few of the major characters might be in order. Good chance for their personalities to come through. Also, I never once felt that WizAnon was powering through Gensokyo. All of his fights have been hard-won to view, and well-deserved.

As for the update rate... well, you do what you can, right? This is still my favorite story on the site, so please, keep at it, bro.
>> No. 168555
>>168479
>>168488
My complaints were just things I felt I should point out. I dropped the story because I'm not having fun. In fact, it's become the opposite of fun for me.

>>168514
I forgot to say this in my other post, but good luck finishing this story. I do look forward to whatever you write next.

As for your recommendations, I really do need to read Being Meiling and The Game was possibly my favorite story I've read on this site. Everyone here should really check out both.
>> No. 168592
>>168488
But in this case, he didn't have preparation time.
He barged into Remilia's mansion without waiting a day to re-prepare his spells for fighting a devil-vampire.
A full-on Batman wizard would have scried the place out well first, and then probably ambushed Remilia in her sleep.
>> No. 168600
>>168592
That's like saying Batman can't handle a surprise attack. He's batman because he's ready for everything, even for what he isn't.
After all, who else keeps a shark repellant bat-spray with him at all times?
>> No. 168602
[X]Finish(*) her

*Not necessarily kill, even apart from us being unable to know if that would in any way stick. If stone to flesh, mordekainens mansion macguyvered into a poor mans imprisonment or anything else that will securely contain her for a while is available, take that.
>> No. 168604
>>168600
Batman is best with prep time but I don't think it's possible to catch him entirely surprised. There's a reason why the bat-family has its own section on the TvTropes "Crazy Prepared" page.

Wizanon isn't forward thinking like Batman. That and he seems fond of doing the magic equivalent of "using a bazooka on a door lock" (i.e. brute magical force)
>> No. 168606
>>168512
Not sure if you mean D&D vampires, but I figure, what the hell, I'll explain.

D&D vampires are essentially shit on toast for anything approaching their effective level, let alone wizards. As with all undead, they don't get an HP bonus from their con score, and their LA of +8 means they're eight levels behind on what HP they do have. Fast Healing 5 only covers so much. They can also be turned and dominated by the nearest available evil cleric. And fire, as always, is the answer.

They have a bag of tricks, but they're mostly weak; even their Dominate is based on half their HD, which they don't have enough of. They can breed like maggots by turning commoners into their spawn if left alone long enough, but that's about it.

D&D vampires are, rightly, deserving of mockery for any wizard of Wizanon's caliber, as so many things are.

Remilia, of course, is an entirely different kettle of fish. There's just no comparison at all, barring some similarities in diet and aesthetics.
>> No. 168607
>>168606

Level adjustment means nothing for NPCs, because they use Challenge rating instead (Vampires are +2 CR). LA only exists to balance player groups whose character races have a power disparity.
It's terrible at that because most abilities are over-valued, making most LA-bearing races useless as PCs. That fast healing 5? +2 LA. Undead type? +2 LA. It's WotC's way of chewing you out for having wrongbadfun by playing monsters, and shouldn't be seriously used to gauge a creature's strength.
>> No. 168613
>>168607
Better that than undervalued. Otherwise we'd be even more swamped in snowflake characters.
>> No. 168615
>>168613
You think anyone who'd do that would last long against any competent if not outright sadistic DM?
>> No. 168616
>>168615
Sadistic DM can kill any character.
>> No. 168630
>>168463

I still don't think that killing Remilia will incur the wrath of the powers that be. Remilia was working on a ritual/thingy to completely break the status quo, and Keine will corroborate. Remilia had to be removed one way or another from that perspective. Wizard is just making it so they don't have to get blood on their hats.

After all, she's proven that danmaku isn't enough to get her to comply. Oh sure she puts on a good dog and pony show of compliance, but the moment she sees an opportunity to put herself back on the top, she seizes it with both hands.

Actually, that raises another thought. Maybe this isn't an attempt to manipulate Wizanon. Maybe it's an attempt to manipulate Keine. If Yuyu is perceptive enough to read Wizanon like a book like this, she's perceptive enough to note that Keine is starting to have serious feelings for him. She also knows that Wizanon is very unlikely to resolve this issue with non-lethal danmaku. Keine, however, is. She's got the power to annihilate Remi, but not the motivation. (Keine was willing to go at it with danmaku duel, remember.) So Yuyu needs a way to give Keine the motivation to put Remi in the ground, permanently.

Here's what I think she might be doing:
1. Yuyu wants Remi gone.
2. Yuyu sends Wizard/Keine tagteam, manipulating them with tales of soylent green.
3. Yuyu expects Wizanon to outright attack Remilia and get pawned by her.
4. Then Keine, distraught at Wizanon's death, opens up a can of Hakutaku brand whoop ass on Remi, thereby removing both threats to the status quo (Wizanon and Remi) at once.

Unfortunately for her, she didn't expect Wizanon to be able to hold his own and maybe even win.
>> No. 168633
>>168630
we don't know what she was really planning with the ghosts and Wizanon's reasons for going after her so seriously had more to do with what she is than her plan.

That and you seem to forget the kind of things that happen in Gensokyo and end in tea time.

I'd be surprised if Remilia's plot was anywhere as bad as reviving a notorious killer tree AND having no Spring as a side effect.

But whatever the case there's something going on that Wizanon doesn't know about. But I do think it would provoke some sort of response as between some Outsider waltzing around acting like it's his world and friends, which do you think Reimu and Marisa would be closer to believing. Oh wait said outsider basically humiliated Marisa earlier on and now just torched her favorite "borrowing" spot.

What would be the response be to that? I certainly hope it's not to flatten them due to siding with a 'monster', slippery slope here folks.

Though I think at the end of things, it'll be up to Keine to fix things as in the worse case scenario...
>> No. 168634
>>168633
>What would be the response be to that? I certainly hope it's not to flatten them due to siding with a 'monster', slippery slope here folks.

First, we'll talk. If it doesn't work, spellcard battle. I doubt they'll actually want to attack Wizanon directly.

Also, I just realized something. Why don't we try to get Tenshi on our side? If we're going to cause chaos in Gensokyo, might as well invite her along for the ride.
>> No. 168635
>>168634
I though Wizanon disliked most Celestials.
>> No. 168637
>>168635
Most Celestials are stuffy no-fun LAWFUL STUPID buttheads.
Tenshi starts fights for the hell of it.
Which would you rather party with?
>> No. 168647
>>168635
Tenshi is Chaotic Neutral, so she's nothing at all like the Lawful Good Celestials.
>> No. 168648
>>168635
This is a case of a term being used for a different thing in D&D than it is in Touhou.

D&D 3.5 celestials are good-aligned outsiders. Touhou celestials are specifically former humans who inhabit heaven, or their children, and do not have alignment restrictions.
D&D 3.5 demons are chaotic evil outsiders. Touhou demons are residents of Makai, the creations of Shinki, and do not have alignment restrictions.
D&D 3.5 devils are lawful evil outsiders. Touhou devils are bat-winged humanoids who do not have alignment restrictions. More powerful ones, at least, are able to turn into bats.
D&D 3.5 vampires are evil, blood-drinking undead who permanently drain their victims' life force when biting, and can kill most humans just by touching them. Touhou vampires are extremely powerful, blood-drinking devils, whose bites do not have lasting effects except for possible death by blood loss, and who once again do not have alignment restrictions.

There are presumably a few more terms with different meanings in D&D and Touhou.
>> No. 168654
>>168630

The problem is, it doesn't matter. Just breaking the spell card rules and attacking someone in earnest weakens the spellcard rules. They have no force unless Reimu constantly proves that "if you break the rules and attack someone for real, I will beat you up for it."
>> No. 168661
>>168633

We outright know that she was planning on breaking the status quo - she admitted as much, and Keine will corroborate. Now, Wizard doesn't care about that since he thinks the status quo is balls, but Reimu does, and this means that Reimu would have had to break Remilia one way or another. Mere nonlethal danmaku is demonstrably not enough. Wizard, assuming he's successful, will merely be saving her the trouble.

Also, that "everything ends in tea" thing doesn't seem to be true for this story. After all, how many people has Wizard had tea with after beating them so far? That'd be a flat 0. For better or worse, A Wizard is You is a less... Whimsical take on Gensokyo. More lolzy but less whimsical.

>The problem is, it doesn't matter. Just breaking the spell card rules and attacking someone in earnest weakens the spellcard rules. They have no force unless Reimu constantly proves that "if you break the rules and attack someone for real, I will beat you up for it."

That's a good point, but the issue is that Remilia already admitted to planning to break the spellcard rules and set herself up as top vampire. Either way, the spellcard rules are getting broken one way or another, regardless of whether Reimu beats up Wizard or not. And even if she does, it won't change anything because the horses have already escaped; the damage is already done. Reimu's credibility as Judge Dredd The Law is broke because Remilia was able to do this stuff right under her nose.
>> No. 168662
>>168654
Well look at all the resolved incidents, that's enough to keep things in line. Though I do believe the spellcard rules have another purpose: keeping things from getting even bloodier (as it's stated one could save themeslves from getting eaten just from declaring a duel regardless of its result). Attacking someone so massively outside those rules may result in both species ceasing to do so and with obviously higher body counts as stronger forces join in.

Source:http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento:_Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules

>If victorious against a human, you may not kill them.

>>168661
the same could be said for anyone doing an incident as Reimu's more a reactive force than a proactive one. You forgot that Remilia was rather nervous about Reimu finding out, not behavior someone really trying to shake things up would show. In fact, most Evil Remilias in fanworks act arrogantly in regards to Reimu, believing their unrestrained might is enough to crush her.

Also what quotes do you have supporting your point? As the way it sounds like, you're just digging up flimsy justification on top of what's been made clear. The Wizard is pissed that vampires are eating outsiders.

He's lucky no one had the composure to toss in his face: "Does that mean you help all the homeless and the despair driven? Or is 'helping the weak' just an excuse to do what you want?" Supposedly 'righteous' people are major target for such speeches.

That and I get the feeling Remilia's stunt is in response to the new factions getting all the attention (Moriya, Buddhist, Taoist). For someone canonically known for being showy, such a thing would be pretty bad.
>> No. 168669
>>168662

I don't know if "lucky" is quite the right word, as I really don't think Wizanon would be slowed down even for a second by that kind of comic-book-villian attempted-psychout rhetoric.

I mean, seriously. Arguing that you shouldn't try to stop a serial killer, because you supposedly haven't done "enough" yet to help people other than their victims? What kind of logic is that? And what other heroes would even give such a ploy the time of day?

"Oh, Spiderman, you shouldn't try to stop the Green Goblin from killing people! You'd be a hypocrite because you haven't volunteered at enough soup kitchens to justify trying to save their lives!"

Seriously, what.
>> No. 168671
>>168662
>You haven't done enough good to justify doing good!

Yeah, no.
>> No. 168674
>>168669
>>168671

I think the gist of the argument he's referring to isn't so much "you haven't done enough good to justify doing good" as it is "the good you're doing isn't as good as you'd like to believe it is".

It's not saying Spiderman's wrong for going after Green Goblin because he hasn't saved enough starving puppies to justify stopping anyone from killing people, it's saying Spiderman's not really going after Green Goblin to stop him from killing people, he's going after him because he killed his girlfriend and Spidey just wants revenge. The goal isn't to make the hero question whether he should start volunteering at the local soup kitchen more often, it's to make him question himself and his motivations casting them a less-than-altruistic light. It's telling them, "you're not really a hero fighting against evil, you're just some selfish douche going after somebody because they pissed you off".

As you can probably imagine, this easily segues into your standard "we're not so different, you and I" speech, and while these generally don't work, they ideally give the hero enough pause to allow the villain to gain the upper hand.
>> No. 168675
>>168674

...so the hero is only allowed to combat the kinds of evil that DON'T "piss him off"?

It doesn't make sense to try and treat having such a personal stake in an issue as a disincentive for doing good in relation to it. Yes, Gwen Stacy dying puts an added emotional impetus behind Spiderman's pursuit of the Green Goblin. That's a perfectly understandable human reaction, and it doesn't in ANY way change the fact that the Green Goblin NEEDS to be stopped.

Similarly, losing a loved one to a somewhat-obscure disease might prompt someone to become really gung-ho and donate really heavily into research to finding the cure for that one particular disease. Does that personal aspect make all of it "selfish"?

I mean, sure, there is probably an element of personal gratification involved in the mix. And strictly speaking, you could argue that donating to researching a more common disease might be, by the numbers, a "better" thing to do overall. But that's just the way human motivation works sometimes. And none of that makes the medical research you did donate to a BAD thing. You could've just bought Xbox games and the like with that money.
>> No. 168676
>>168675
it's a question that any good doer should be prepared for as more often than not, any attempts at good done in the world tend to have some sort of less than good undercurrent.

Take most 'crusaders' against eating meat and animal treatment, many tend to do that so the cute animal won't get harmed, they couldn't care less about the ugly ones.

The best key to countering such a question is realizing this dark point and prepare a counter for it.

As it is, this question might catch Wizanon off guard as his past is a mainly a DnD adventurer, not always the cleanest profession. Heck it's thinly veiled murder and robbery sometimes, it's just that the victim happens to be evil.

Point is while Wizanon does some good, his core reasons may be suspect.

Though it should be noted that such a question/speech might have the opposite effect, while convincing the person they're not so different to a degree, it doesn't change the fact that person is still going to fight them but possibly much more pragmatically/brutally.
>> No. 168679
>>168676
well, one thing to do is to imagine a perfect version of yourself, without ulterior motives, completely morally uncorrupt, etc.

now, doing what that holy and unrealistic person would do is likely too damn difficult for the mortal you, but would that person actually be against you doing what you're currently doing?

if the answer is no, then go right ahead.
>> No. 168681
All this moralizing is just wasteful. I'm sure that Wizanon understands the niceties of what adventuring entails, he's done it for 18 levels now.

If Remilia should pause to belt out a one-liner, our response should be a fireball before she's closed her mouth. Save the philosophy for after the battle.

And he's best-buddies with a celestial, the very incarnation of goodness and law. If he's really unsure, just ask the Hound Archon.
>> No. 168682
>>168681
>And he's best-buddies with a celestial, the very incarnation of goodness and law. If he's really unsure, just ask the Hound Archon.

Ah, how I love DnD alignment system.
>> No. 168683
>>168682
You can be friends with people of different alignments you know?
>> No. 168684
>>168683
Yeah, but good people can't befriend evil people.

At least, not in a really close way since eventually their alignments will clash and one side must compromise, thus turning them into neutral.
>> No. 168685
Wizard is most likely chaotic good.

>>168684
Not all d&d evil creatures behave like cartoon villains. Some of them do, no doubt about that(lol drows), but there are beings with evil alignment with better motivations than "Let's murder everyone for spideeerrssss!"
>> No. 168686
>>168685
>Not all d&d evil creatures behave like cartoon villains. Some of them do, no doubt about that(lol drows), but there are beings with evil alignment with better motivations than "Let's murder everyone for spideeerrssss!"

Well, yeah, I know that. Your point?
>> No. 168687
>>168686
I don't think it is impossible for good and evil creature to be friends without changing alignments.
>> No. 168688
>>168687
I don't think good characters can just look the other way when evil characters do their evil deeds. If they can, they're probably neutral instead.
>> No. 168689
>>168688
This assume good character will even know about it.

For example: Let's say there are 2 adventurers fighting with drows, good one (G) and evil one (E). They fight with drows for years because they both agree random massacres performed by raiding parties are bad thing. One day E finds wounded drow. Frustrated with lack of progress in their crusade he decides to tort... "perform enchanced interrogation" it might be not nice but in his mind it is OK because every drow is an asshole and their cities are torture dungeons anyway. After E finished "interrogating" enemy(or what remained of it) he has some new information about drow raiding parties. E is pretty proud of himself. E doesn't tell this mr G because while he likes him he thinks G is kinda pansy and if G started to have second thoughts it would harm just cause they are both fighting for.

I made up whole thing in less than 5 minutes. It isn't hard to think of how good and evil creatures could be friends in D&D.
>> No. 168690
File 136890322562.jpg - (1.21MB , 1320x2040 , 1266729776475.jpg ) [iqdb]
168690
>>168682
>>168683
>>168684
>>168685
>>168686
>>168687
>>168688
>>168689
Yeah, okay, this is getting just a little bit off topic.
>> No. 168691
>>168689
>This assume good character will even know about it.

Yeah, I forgot to add that point.
>> No. 168692
>>168689
And this is why the entire alignment system is bad.
>> No. 168693
>And this is why the entire alignment system is bad.

Let's no go there.
>> No. 168705
>>168662

What quotes are you looking for, exactly? That Remilia was planning on something that would break the status quo?

Well, there's this from the last thread:
>“While they're busy rutting we'll be busy summoning,” Remilia's voice gloats at high volume from near by, approaching at a more leisurely pace through the stacks. “One this final spell is complete I will answer those insults at last. No more living off the scraps they dole out, no more lurking in this manse like a peasant, no more dueling with that little red-white cunt.”

It's pretty clear that Remi's plan, assuming it works as she thinks, is going to completely up end the current situation. What with no longer having to deal with Reimu, no longer having to obey the order of things and the like.

Remi's endgoal is to ditch the spellcard rules and set herself up as top dog. That's kind of the most obvious reading of her actual words. Flimsy justification? She outright monologues in true villainous fashion.
>> No. 168708
>>168705
Touche, but what explains the nervousness regarding Reimu then? There is the fact Remilia lieks to put on villainous airs without doing anything.

Too bad not that many people are going to believe Wizanon as I get the feeling by the time he's done, there won't be any evidence supporting him.
>> No. 168711
>>168708
Keine was literally right there. We may be distrusted, but Keine is kind of a big deal and her words carry quite a bit of weight.
>> No. 168723
>>168711
Not if it comes off to people she's being like a 'schoolgirl in love' with regards to Wizanon. There's no proof that Reimu or Marisa would exactly take her words at their value (but the same time there's no proof that they wouldn't)

Though Marisa would definitely be biased against Wizanon for the whole humiliating payback she suffered. And this is someone who doesn't need much context to go beating them and taking their stuff (same goes with Reimu).
>> No. 168724
>>168723
I thought that whole thing with Marisa was smoothed over. No bumps at all, flat as a board, totally smooth.
>> No. 168729
I'm actually curious as to what Remilia intended to summon. An army of mook ghosts would be impressive, sure, but your average Touhou would put that down easy.

So Remi's searching for something that can put her on top of a pile of mikos, monsters, and gods.

Did she find an Atropal or something?
>> No. 168730
>>168729
I say it's a dragon. Despite having no evidence to back up these claims.
>> No. 168731
File 136895598532.jpg - (47.52KB , 375x500 , death.jpg ) [iqdb]
168731
>>168729
>> No. 168732
File 136898084110.jpg - (675.82KB , 620x877 , death.jpg ) [iqdb]
168732
>>168731
But death wanted wizard to kick remilia ass.
>> No. 168733
>>168730
I dunno. Remilia claims to have killed dragons before, and there are people capable of kicking her ass.

One undead dragon just doesn't seem like enough to seriously threaten all of gensokyo.
>> No. 168743
>>168729
good question, provided it wasn't just Remilia messing around in ghosts and having delusions of tyranny.
>> No. 168777
>>168514

My only problem with the story is that most of the readers have absolutely no idea what a Wizard can actually do or how a high-level wizard is required to go about their business, and so make incredibly crude decisions.

As a result I get the impression that a lot of the character motivations are caused by the need to stop Wizanon from being the actual villain.

It's not really helped by us never getting around to using any of our divinations to actually figure out some fucking motives and stop being played like an NPC though.

Generally I think you've done a fantastic job of things.

>>168606

For PCs, you are correct that the LA ruins them. But NPC vampires have it easy - their powerset makes it quite simple to dominate and turn a very large number of powerful guardians.

Of course, a high-level character who then deliberately engineers their undeath turns that calculation on its head. It's not the worst idea for, say, a sorcerer to do so after hitting level 17 - they just won't gain anymore levels. At level 20, it's a great idea - gaining levels above it doesn't really do anything for you if you don't fuck around with Epic, so stacking on the templates and LA's is golden if there aren't any PrC's worth dipping.

If Remilia were a DnD Vampire, she would likely also qualify for Vampire Lord, an upgrade to the template that occurs after a hundred years which basically doubles the Vampire bonuses.

>>168729

Well, there just so happens to be a large DnD Dragon corpse that we just left lying around in a field...

I can't recall if Patchouli got access to any high-level spells, but if she deciphered Gate they could call in some very heavy firepower.

>>168733

It's just another one of those things that we never bothered to investigate.
>> No. 168789
[X] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168791
Yeah, all things considered, I'm gonna have to go with
[X] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168795
These are some very impressive arguments. And a certain side has convinced me.

[X] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168797
>>168789
>>168791
>>168795
I feel bad for whoever is going to have to check the whole thread for vote spam
>> No. 168809
>>168797
as a foreigner, the fact that you guys have mods that will do that for you confuses me and impresses me, it also make me a little sad because it shows how little traffic you guys actually have, which is unfortunate with all the great writing.
>> No. 168811
[X] Finish Remilia.
>> No. 168812
>>168809
Such is life. Touhou is niche. Touhou fanfiction even more so.
>> No. 168813
>>168812

Touhou Fanfiction in the form of a CYOA even even more so.
>> No. 168814
>>168809
People are working on that part as part of it was due to a policy of secrecy that has since become obsolete.
>> No. 168817
>>168809
All the more reason to not just stick to this one story here but to read some other things. Old and new stories alike. There are tons of help/recommendation threads on the site and it just needs a little bit of time/caring to get to it.
>> No. 168829
>>168777
Oh yeah, Vampire Lord. Considering that from wizanons perspective it's entirely possible for Remilia to be one, he'll probably be best off with Flesh to Stone door similar spells.
Because a Vampire Lord is really fucking hard to kill.

[]FINISH HER(In a non-lethal yet probably permanent way, like Flesh to Stone, just incase vampires have the ability to ressurect from being incinerated by a dragon swimming through lava at the speed of haste)
>> No. 168833
>>168829
Oh yeah, as an addendum: you know how the Tarrasque, the unkillable Godzilla, can still be killed RAW by getting it into the negatives and then wishing it dead?
To keep a Vampire Lord from ressurecting, you need to cut of it's head, burn the head and body separately, mix the head's ashes with holy water, throw the body's ashes into running water, and bury the wet ashes of the head somewhere that I don't remember.
If someone digs up the ashes of the head and dries them, they can cast an unhallow to let the Vampire Lord ressurect within a week.
By RAW, a Vampire Lord is more unkillable than the goddamn Tarrasque.
And that's why wizanon probably should stone her, since she isn't dead as far as I know and can't ressurect (not that Remilia necessarily can do that.)
Oh, and the process is reversible, so the pro-Youkai guys might like that too.
>Then again, Flesh to Stone is both SR:Yes and Save:Fortitude negates, so it might fail (lol iron skin) or Remilia might be undead and be immune to it.
>> No. 168836
>>168833
I know its tempting to turn to D&D interpretations because it has set rules and statistics while Touhou is purposely left vague, but we've already ruled that Remilia is NOT any type of D&D-style vampire. She's completely different, and relying on D&D material will end badly for us.

She's got more in a common with a demon or devil than a vampire. She just happens to drink blood as well.
>> No. 168840
>>168836
Eh, I know. I suppose that I just wanted to point out that wizanon wouldn't necessarily go easy on vampires/actually kill vampires. I guess I just started thinking about it because of that comment about the feasibility of getting a Remilia-shaped statue for the garden. It's more about what a D&D-worlder would assume than what is actually true in Gensokyo, much like those other guys implied that wizanon would go easy on vampires because lol, D&D vamps.
Sorry for the multi-post rant.
>> No. 168847
[x]FINISH HER
>> No. 168852
[X] FINISH HER

Flawless Victory

Fatality
>> No. 168854
>>168852
Ain't nothin' flawless 'bout this.
>> No. 168857
>>168854
Maybe not, but I'm still pretty sure there's gonna be a Mortal Kombat grade fatality
>> No. 168865
When I think about it... How are we supposed to finish Remilia anyway? Even if she isn't D&D vampire lord her regeneration is pretty ridiculous.
>> No. 168866
[x]Shapechange into something holy,
---[x] Holy Word to deal with all the ghosts AND further incapacitate Remilia

if that isn't an option
[x] Kill her.

All of the damage we've done makes her no weaker to our incapacitating magic and herding her into a mansion gives her time to regenerate AND time for the ghosts to attack us.
>> No. 168868
>>168865
Dunno, I'm more concerned what comes after the finishing blow.
>> No. 168870
>>168865
It's my understanding that when she's seriously threatened or dying, she poofs into a swarm of bats, and any one of those bats can transform into a complete Remilia.

Fortunately, the room is made of lava now, and if she poofed into bats, they'd die instantly. All we have to do is hold her under the lava until she vaporizes. Which, considering convection, should've happened already.

Fucking touhous.
>> No. 168874
File 136929363867.jpg - (126.46KB , 400x400 , lol_lava.jpg ) [iqdb]
168874
>>168870

High level D&D adventurers can swim in lava with minimum effort. I don't see why Remilia or other sturdier touhous should be different.
>> No. 168893
>>168874
True, but that's with the use of artifacts or spells.

I know Touhous are retardedly powerful going by canon interpretation, but there's only so much a person can tolerate before calling bullshit.
>> No. 168916
[x] Transform into a Radiance dragon. Radiance dragons have a force breath weapon. Guess what ignores a ghosts incorporeality.

We can take out both Remilia and the ghosts in one move.
>> No. 168940
>all this transformation voting

I thought we only had it prepared once. Can we transform any number of times or something?
>> No. 168945
>>168893
Not really. Total immersion in lava deals 20d6 avg. 70 damage a round (six seconds); your average 20th level barbarian has 20d12 hitpoints, raw, not counting his con score which will be hilarious. Assuming a score of 36 (+13), that's a good 130+260=390hp, which is a good half-minute if he doesn't mind being worn to the bones.
>> No. 168946
>>168940
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm
> You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action.
So, yes.
>> No. 168947
>>168940
Shapechange lasts 10 minutes per caster level which at our level is 3 hours. We can change forms once every round (six seconds) as a free action.
Read the spell here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm
>> No. 168953
>>168916
Guess what we're nigh immersed in, that a radiant dragon isn't immune to but a pyroclastic dragon is?

It'd still be effective, if only we weren't at such low hp from the fight already.
>> No. 168955
>>168893

Multiple Touhous powers were created by magical items(Mokou immortality), magical rituals(some of magicians), etc. Some of course are just durable/resistant enough because of their innate power but same can be said about various d&d creatures.

D&D and Touhou aren't very different in that matter.
>> No. 168958
>>168916
Turning into some sort of Gemstone dragon might be an idea, though. They've all got Fire Resistance 15, according to the Monster Manual 2 3.5 update, and we'd only be taking 2d6 Fire damage, because we're big enough to only be partially immersed in the lava.
>> No. 168970
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT MANSION!!!
-[x] Also, use something like stone to flesh rather than straightforward killing, because you don't know if she can respawn like a normal vampire or devil outside the Nine could, and such a technique would prevent that.

Also, possibly transform into something that negates the 50% spell fail chance and has protection from fire at the same time… damned, that sounds hard. Can we cancel the iron body spell?

[x] If this vote doesn't get enough support, just add it to whichever non-lethal, near permanent defeat choice holds the most support.

Totally killing her (if we believe ourselves capable of that.) would just give way too much headache. If Yuyuko actually planned us (or a grieving Keine) to kill Remi, then NOT killing her is the best way to piss on her plan. Also, it would avoid any big trouble with the powers that be. (Even if they don't come and try to kill us, taking the safe option is not necessarily bad.) I am not going to repeat the whole: Why kill or not kill Remilia argument, we have heard enough of that. (I personally also added an argument there. Post 168270 to be precise. I showed my opinion and that is it. Now, this is my vote.)

>>168705

Touche, but what explains the nervousness regarding Reimu then? There is the fact Remilia lieks to put on villainous airs without doing anything.

Too bad not that many people are going to believe Wizanon as I get the feeling by the time he's done, there won't be any evidence supporting him.

Well, if Reimu finds out about her attempt at breaking the rules she may just decide to either destroy any chance at her repeating this anytime soon. (friendly choice) Murderkill her (deadly choice) or use powerful sealing and leave her for the next generation to deal with. (the... someone else's problem choice) The actual reason for the creation of the Spellcard system was after all to give the Yokai a CHANCE at winning against Reimu. She is invisible otherwise.. ALL THE DAMNED TIME!!!

Why would Wizanon attempt to explain shit to people? He thinks status quo is evil; ergo the keepers of status quo are evil, uncaring or tricked. He would have to first make sure that they are neither of the first two and then gather enough prove for the whole thing. The only evidence we have is… a space/time bending Were-Hakutaku that can show how the battle happened with her history manipulation ability. Oh, we are so screwed!! (While people may consider Keine sort of lovey dovy with Wizanon, she wouldn't lie to cover up a murder.)

>>168733

Not really, she mentioned her weapon has cut into dragon skin, not that she killed any before. That may have something to do with a former owner, after all her weapon is legendary and (possibly) the original.

Damned, I made again a way too long post. Good luck to you Deme and I look forward to further chapters.
>> No. 168976
[X] Finish Remilia
>> No. 168977
>>168958
What gemstone dragons have that pyroclastic don't?
>> No. 168985
>>168977
Breath weapon for amethyst is lines of force, which can harm ghosts, otherwise, nothing.
>> No. 169010
[X] Finish Remilia
Yeah, let's end this.
>> No. 169011
deme
please
at least tell them to shut up and stop voting
>> No. 169012
[x] MORDENKAINEN'S MAGNIFICENT MANSION!!!
-[x] Also, use something like stone to flesh rather than straightforward killing, because you don't know if she can respawn like a normal vampire or devil outside the Nine could, and such a technique would prevent that.

Even if WizAnon is Frothing mad he is not stupid. So far he's been focused on the ghosts hopefully be a wake up call to get him to start thinking strategically again.
>> No. 169013
>>169011
>Deme
>Doing anything than updating once in a blue moon.

It's too late for this thread anyways.
>> No. 169014
Hey Deme, any plans on incorporating the new characters from TH 13.5 and TH 14?
>> No. 169023
>>169013
>New Thread
>One post by Demetrious
>already require a new thread

This is so ridiculous its funny.
>> No. 169024
File 136961923734.png - (50.73KB , 200x232 , 1335_tc.png ) [iqdb]
169024
>>169023
That's what happens when you're popular. It's not a bad thing, it's a sign of how good a story it is.
>> No. 169027
>>169024
Not if most of the response is various neckbeardry.
>> No. 169035
>>169027
What counts as "neckbeardy" exactly?
>> No. 169038
>>169035
talk about DnD stats, which stupidly OP spell would be best for a scenario even if a simpler one would solve the problem just as well.
>> No. 169042
>>169038
And arguing over which side of the battle should be winning.
>> No. 169089
File 136977628380.png - (473.84KB , 1036x526 , so_moe.png ) [iqdb]
169089
>>169014
It looks like all new characters in double dealing character(touhou 14) are from western folklore(dullahan, werewolf and mermaid).
>> No. 169090
File 136977996151.jpg - (70.09KB , 600x512 , Yumoto_C_Nukekubi.jpg ) [iqdb]
169090
>>169089
She's not a dullahan, she's a rokurokubi. Although she's more like a nukekubi.
>> No. 169102
>>169090
Her theme is named "Dullahan Under the Willows"
>> No. 169108
>>169102
Despite her theme name, her official profile from the manual gives her species as rokurokubi, and her powers closely resemble those of the nukekubi, whereas she has little to no resemblance to a dullahan in practice.
>> No. 169155
>>168076
[x] Finish Remilia

Kill her, Kill her now.
>> No. 169161
File 137003879452.gif - (51.03KB , 90x90 , nords gonna nord.gif ) [iqdb]
169161
NEW THREAD

>>169160
>> No. 169163
File 137003912932.gif - (1.74MB , 360x359 , 1266947489572.gif ) [iqdb]
169163
>>169161

NEVERMIND I LIED IT'S ACTUALLY HERE

>>169162
>> No. 182008
ultram schedule 2 - legal to buy ultram online